Dumb COP's (VAG) on one IGN driver? Also weak spark?

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Just wondering if it's okay to connect two COP coils to one IGN output?

As that's how I have it setup on a buddys 2.7T motor and while the car drove fine for a while (150-200km) one channel (2 COP's) blew up, took out the fuse as well.

We replaced the COP's and were getting an extremely weak spark on the output that failed compared to the other 4 cyl.  So I moved the output to another IGN out same thing, then I moved it to another and the car ran for about 15 sec then took out the COP fuse died and took out that IGN driver.  The coils are ok though.

Dwell is @ about 1.9ms + 0.3ms @ 6V. 

 

[lugnuts]

stepper chip output?

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Nope... 1 IGBT per 2 COP's direct.

I noticed you drive the VR6 cars w/ the stepper outputs on your plug and play ECU's though.... that due to the logic signal for the ignitor on the back of the coil pack?

don't forget these are dumb COP's I'm dealing with...  and I'm not using the ignitor(s).  Although that is something to think about trying!

[rob@vems.co.uk]

I'd use an external 6 coil igniter pack and use the stepper output to drive the channels in pairs.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

^^^ I don't really want to use the stepper outs as my friends as a stepper IAC valve he would like to use....

I was thinking this:  one COP per IGBT, then using the Dual Ignition option, or taking out the IGBT's and going to a logic output.  Only thing is the ignitors seem to fire with +12V and the logic output is +5V right?

Ideas?

[lugnuts]

<<<Nope... 1 IGBT per 2 COP's direct.>>>

- OK, I've never set-up a V8 so I've never tried that(2 COP on one IGBT Output) and now I know not to try haha.

<<<I noticed you drive the VR6 cars w/ the stepper outputs on your plug and play ECU's though.... that due to the logic signal for the ignitor on the back of the coil pack?>>>

- Yes, I use the stepper output for OEM coil on VR6 and also 1.8t 4 wire COP coils. I have made 780+ wheel HP with
both engines using 100% stock ignition coils.

<<<don't forget these are dumb COP's I'm dealing with...  and I'm not using the ignitor(s).  Although that is something to think about trying!>>>

The internal ignitor coils have worked very well for me for the last 5+ years.
I'd stay away from the Audi AEB module, this is the first item to fail. I convert those cars over to 4 wire COP and be done with it.

I don't like using the IGBT drivers usually, due to EMI/RFI inside the ecu (no OEM does this), the clamping plates(suck) become more important, you need a million ground wires (not true but it is the first thing people try to blame problems on when they can not figure them out), etc.
Until now, I thought the IGBT drivers were the only strong, reliable part of this otherwise fragile and nerve wracking ecu. 

[NOTORIOUS VR]

<<<Nope... 1 IGBT per 2 COP's direct.>>>

- OK, I've never set-up a V8 so I've never tried that(2 COP on one IGBT Output) and now I know not to try haha.

haha... yea live and learn I guess.  This is a V6 BTW, but same difference

<<<I noticed you drive the VR6 cars w/ the stepper outputs on your plug and play ECU's though.... that due to the logic signal for the ignitor on the back of the coil pack?>>>

- Yes, I use the stepper output for OEM coil on VR6 and also 1.8t 4 wire COP coils. I have made 780+ wheel HP with
both engines using 100% stock ignition coils.

Yup I randomly stumble upon your posts on the 'tex with the cars you tuned... Very impressive.  And not all that surprising actually, the VR6 coil packs aren't at all bad when they're new and not cracked lol...

<<<don't forget these are dumb COP's I'm dealing with...  and I'm not using the ignitor(s).  Although that is something to think about trying!>>>

The internal ignitor coils have worked very well for me for the last 5+ years.
I'd stay away from the Audi AEB module, this is the first item to fail. I convert those cars over to 4 wire COP and be done with it.

Yes the problem is the person who's car I'm working on has the OEM S4 coils and doesn't want to have to spend on new ones if not needed.  I personally want to even convert my B5 S4 to Hitachi coils just because they're do damn cheap and more reliable!

I don't like using the IGBT drivers usually, due to EMI/RFI inside the ecu (no OEM does this), the clamping plates(suck) become more important, you need a million ground wires (not true but it is the first thing people try to blame problems on when they can not figure them out), etc.
Until now, I thought the IGBT drivers were the only strong, reliable part of this otherwise fragile and nerve wracking ecu. 

I hear ya... Now just one thing... driving VAG ignitors... would it work if I converted the IGBT's to logic outputs?  Just so I can keep the stepper outputs for the ICV that he has and wants to put in.  AS for the ground wires... I really don't know why they're all there... one only one that matters is the main one, since if that one disconnects and even if you have all the other 8 grounds connected the ECU still manages to fry something (ask me how I know)

[hilly]

I hear ya... Now just one thing... driving VAG ignitors... would it work if I converted the IGBT's to logic outputs?  Just so I can keep the stepper outputs for the ICV that he has and wants to put in.  AS for the ground wires... I really don't know why they're all there... one only one that matters is the main one, since if that one disconnects and even if you have all the other 8 grounds connected the ECU still manages to fry something (ask me how I know)

Yes you can, that is exactly what I did with my ECU to drive a pair of dreaded Audi AEB ignition modules.

On my V8 I used 4x  Microchip TC4427 http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=6684351 which is dual channel high sided MOSFET driver and they are dead cheap.
This goes in place of the IGBT and provide a nice fast low impedance drive for the trigger input on active coils/ignition modules.

Has been working on my car for over 2 years without a hitch........

Hilly

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Awesome!  A ton of great information here... thanks a lot guys!

I'm gonna look into getting the IC's you mention locally from a large hobby/electronics shop.

[rob@vems.co.uk]

Yes you can, that is exactly what I did with my ECU to drive a pair of dreaded Audi AEB ignition modules.

On my V8 I used 4x  Microchip TC4427 http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/searchBrowseAction.html?method=getProduct&R=6684351 which is dual channel high sided MOSFET driver and they are dead cheap.
This goes in place of the IGBT and provide a nice fast low impedance drive for the trigger input on active coils/ignition modules.

Has been working on my car for over 2 years without a hitch........

And after Hilly pointed me in the direction of these I got a Honda F20's COPs sparking quite happily.  They also drive enough current to activate a VTEC solenoid if you pair the two channels together.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

So just an update... I repaired the IGN drivers and we wired each COP to one IGN out... I then used the Dual Mode Ignition option and the car fired up right away!

Eventually my buddy said he'll move to active COP's though.

[josh-stateside]

After reading this topic i've learned alot.   I've got an adapter harness that plugs into my ABZ 4.2L stock ecu connectors to run a stock OEM ABZ setup.   However I'm making my own harness and i'm glad I am now.    I'll probably run stock for now but ditch the AEB/ABZ 3 wire COP and ignition drivers and swap over to wasted spark via some form a 4 or twin tower ignition setup.

Thanks for this topic.

JOsh