Audi RS2

[AVP]

Well that came with the ECU, the basic settings were done by Marc so i haven't touched them.

is there any view in a new release? i would rather go forward than back,although i do understand what you are saying.

im really interested in the mat retard feature.

[AVP]

when i look at the config.txt file (without the laptop being connected to the ECU at this time) i get like 391warnings and 0 errors. What does that mean?

Im in the process of trying to upload the 1.1.27beta6 firmware but i dont want to use the 12x12 tables.Id like to go with the 14x16 tables.So i will need to have the rest of the basic settings fitted and i can make the tables from scratch.

But it seems that there are issues im not aware of,such as different megatune screen,some different input in settings, etc.

should i just hit the upload-firmware.bat while connected to VEMS and since i already have a msq file from a different working RS2,use those settings directly?(change the maps of course)

?


edit: also have the v3GUI tool but dont know how to use it.

[peter_jensen]

Learning haw to Uploading firmware can be wary hard work and a lot of things can go wrong when downgrading.

It’s always a good idea to make some screenshots of all the settings so you have something to look at when setting up the new settings/firmware.
Take a mct and mcd dump and save them fore later use.

Instructions haw to install firmware can be found in the downloaded firmware file (Readme)

The best solution fore you I think is to send the Vems Ecu back to the shop and let them due the work and I am sure that it will save you a lot of time and work.


Tnx Peter 

[AVP]

well yes that is also a solution,but the fact is that sending the ECU back to marc to do so,is not easy + customs may be a problem.

anyway, the wideband recalibration seemed to help a little. It was 20.5 and i took it back to 20.8 rather than 20.9.

Still car is not running as well as it should.Anyway,i think i had my try so far.I may just wait for the next official version until i try anything else.Motronic will do fine for now.

Also it seems that in the near future i will have less time to deal with tuning unfortunatelly so i may have to have mine done by an expert.

oh well...

[mswanson]

I shipped him 1.1.44 at his request.  by default, I ship 1.1.27.

I'll be testing out the 1.1.5x releases soon, any idea when something in the 1.1.5x will be declared production stable?

Hmm I also talked to Marcell and he told me to use 1.1.27 only use experimental firmware if you need the new functions badly so if marc have told you to use 1.1.44 that will surprise me.

Also it’s wary important that you have the (h0) in order so you are firing the injectors in the correct order ore you will have a bad idle.

I think you should use 1.1.27 and when one of the new firmware is released you could upgrade then.


Tnx peter     

[AVP]

I think i will wait for the 1.1.5x versions. I believe that the car is running a bit better now,although still a long way to go.

will keep you posted...


i wonder if it is possible to mount a gauge to the wideband as it is now,and with the motronic on, to check the motronic's lamda values... is that possible?

[gunni]

You´ll have to have a wideband controller attached to the O2.

[AVP]

i see

i found one simple from trigger-wheels. If it matches i may try it and see how it goes

[AVP]

i placed my order with that kit and hopefully i will be able to track down my lamda mixture soon. At least this way i will have a more comprehensive way to see what is going on and hopefully build my fuel and VE map better.

[gunni]

Why didn´t you just use a wideband sensor connected to the VEMS to adjust the fuelling?
Why go through this extra cost

[AVP]

Because if i do that i end with a 99% rich map on all occasions in order to get good EGTs which does not make any sense.The fueling map i have from motronic is either in ms of injection or dutycycle of the injectors and therefore i can only get a small clue of how it should be,not actual numbers of lamda.

I want to actually see how the car is setup in the fueling dept. in the motronic,and if i cannot get that with VEMS,then there is a possibility that VEMS may not be doing the job right.Either a firmware problem or something else in the settings.


example: if for a specific TB angle, specific revs and pka and SAME lamda,i get a big difference in EGTs on motronic and VEMS,then that is what im trying to get to.

[gunni]

Because if i do that i end with a 99% rich map on all occasions in order to get good EGTs which does not make any sense.

How can you conclude thta you will need to run rich all the time? that´s why you will TUNE it to an appropriate Lambda.

Why do you think you need "good" EGT´s.

If you are running the same PW, Ignition timing and getting the same lambda values motronic /vems but different EGT values then your base ignition settings just aren´t correct and would need to be checked.

You should also tune the car on a dyno to remove any doubt of incorrect ignition values or lambda values.

As well as not knowing the lambda values that are happening while running motronic and then blaming your vems on higher EGT´s sounds sort of silly.

[AVP]

Well silly or not, i dont have the time to go to a dyno and tune ignition timing, especially when im only starting on the 'tuning' process in whole! If id go now on a dyno,it would be a bigger waste of money for me to try and find what is the best thing to do.

When you say 'base timing' settings, what do you mean? Do you mean the spark table itself OR the configuration to which VEMS is relying on to see where the angle is?If that is the case,then would stock cam audi RS2s have different configuration? if not then the settings should be right.

As i posted before, i have tested vems with higher AND lower ignition timing settings and the lower ones gave me higher egt's while the higher made the engine stress out (for that amount of fueling) without giving me any EGTs closer to the motronic.SO that is how i conclude that with VEMS the appropriate lamda ends up being rich, not at least stoich for cruising speeds!What do i have to do to make it proper? advance it to 60deg???

The whole comparison of the 2 ECUs is based on the fact that the engine is excactly the same.Nothing has changed.Therefore there shouldnt be any HUGE differences on timing that would allow that big of a difference in how the engine perfoms or reacts. On motronic i get a more freeflowing car,with less stress and EGTs. My simple question is, HOW do i get VEMS to do the same???

It SHOULD be possible for the engine,since it is already done by motronic,which is a much older and less sofisticated ECU than VEMS.

To just say,tune it to go well and dont mind about EGTs is wrong IMO because all tuners watch what the EGTs are doing when they are tuning. Knockless and low EGTs is the best thing you can achieve.

Besides,im trying to build an everyday car here,not a drag race car that would be stripped on every second occasion,so i cannot afford to do mistakes.

Finally,if i were to pay someone to tune VEMS for me, id rather pay someone to retune the motronic on my next upgrade and figure vems out on my own.

[gunni]

When you say 'base timing' settings, what do you mean? Do you mean the spark table itself OR the configuration to which VEMS is relying on to see where the angle is?If that is the case,then would stock cam audi RS2s have different configuration? if not then the settings should be right.

I´m talking about the VEMS´s understanding of where top dead center is, if this is wrong then the values in the Ignition tables aren´t accurate. You can check this with a timing light.

As i posted before, i have tested vems with higher AND lower ignition timing settings and the lower ones gave me higher egt's while the higher made the engine stress out (for that amount of fueling) without giving me any EGTs closer to the motronic.SO that is how i conclude that with VEMS the appropriate lamda ends up being rich, not at least stoich for cruising speeds!What do i have to do to make it proper? advance it to 60deg???

How is the engine stressing out?

If you assume same Lambda readings at a particular rpm and load , if the VEMS gives same lambda readings but different EGT readings the EFFECTIVE timing of the engine is not accurate. Meaning that the actual timing will be retarded compared to the Motronic.


Lower timing will always give higher EGT as your delaying the burn process and thus when the exhaust valve opens the mixture is still hotter, This will make alot of people assume that something bad is happening. More advance = lower EGT , which can trick people into thinking that the advance they are running is the right one as the EGT is low wich can then be fatal.

Is your lambda readings 1 at cruise?

[AVP]

according to Marc who did all the settings on the VEMS unit i bought,the settings for the TDC are accurate and correct.

By engine stressing out,i mean that you get the whole car being revved,being louder than it is,and not going any faster that what it did with less advance.Like at the verge of knock in otherwords.ALso at those settings,once more fuel was added,it seemed to be going better.

if i understand it correctly vems is retarding ignition on a predifined curve depended on MAT.right? so is there any other way that the EFFECTIVE ignition timing can be altered? Based on the vagvom logs i have, on 2500rpm and around 60-80pka on cruising speed i have something like 40.5deg of advance. This is what i have used in VEMS,and on same conditions EGTs  were not the same.

from VEMS datalogs, on lamda =1 or 0.98 on cruising,that is when i get the most of the difference in egts.But also on small accelerations on low revs as well.It was only when i tested and gave lamda 0.94-0.95 that i managed to get the car run more easily and 'immitate' more closely the egts that i get from motronic.

IF i reduce timing a bit, the car also seems to like it a bit more, but the EGT difference gets even bigger and therefore on cruising 0.94 would not be enough..

also not to mention that on 170pka that i had done tests and lamda going down to 0.8 and 0.78 the car still got into the 900C whereas motronic on that boost never passed the 820(on the same sensor under the same conditions (roughly),same test road