Alfa 2.0 V6 turbo

[rob@vems.co.uk]

As the timing is set off the crank trigger then the TDC *should* be correct - but you will *need* to confirm it
 

[Sprocket]

I would check actual readings rather than just assume anything. Assumption is the mother of all cockups and is a sure way to damage something. It is simple enough to use an old HT lead and trim/ shape one end to fit the coil with the boot still in place, with the other end of the ht lead on the plug. You can then easily hook up a strobe.

If you have a strobe with the advance feature on it, dont use this feature, set it to zero. Any wasted spark system will play havoc with the actual readings if you do decide to try and zero in on TDC marks with this feature.

Set Crank advance to zero disconnect injectors and tune the trigger before TDC value using the strobe to visualy indicate how far out the settings are. You need a fairly acurate TDC mark on the pulley and engine though.

[lost]

http://hotfile.com/dl/50021616/e40a16b/xxxxxxxxxxxx.rar.html 1.1.74

All cops are working, but when checking with strobe gun tdc is waaaay off.
So i guess something is wrong in config.
I also get strange collision errors in vemstune ;water pump and boost are disabled and it says it collides with ignition outputs?
edit collision:  dissapeared...

[MWfire]

http://hotfile.com/dl/50021616/e40a16b/xxxxxxxxxxxx.rar.html 1.1.74

All cops are working, but when checking with strobe gun tdc is waaaay off.
So i guess something is wrong in config.
I also get strange collision errors in vemstune ;water pump and boost are disabled and it says it collides with ignition outputs?
edit collision:  dissapeared...

then set right settings for trigger toth, tdc delay and ign output.

[lost]

Problem is i dont know how to set ignition right 
Tdc was set before for stock dizzy and car worked.
And documentation has onley 4 cyl example.
If someone has 6cyl 60-2 wasted spark config bmw with diefferent fireing order i might be able to figure it out...

Now it's like this, and tdc is far far away 








COP's are now connected to VEMS stepper outputs (see picture at the top)

Im using Vemstune and 1.1.74 FW

Im not sure how to change ignition settings.
Stepper B =  1&5 (coil for cyl.)
Stepper C = 4&3
Stepper A = 2&6

[rob@vems.co.uk]

How far away 20-30 degrees, more?
Before or after TDC?

TDC after trigger will advance/retard the timing by as many degrees as you change it.
Trigger tooth with advance and retard by 6 degrees.

Try cranking and adjusting the settings and see what happens.

[mattias]

Your trigger tooth ref table should read 0, 40, 20, 0, 40, 20 for faster starting.

If your firing order is 1-4-2-5-3-6 and the cyls are connected like :
Stepper B = 1&5
Stepper C = 4&3
Stepper A = 2&6

The coils will/must fire in this order if that is true : B, C and then A.

The ignition output table is traversed backwards, which means it will have one of these three patterns :

1 2 3
A C B
C B A
B A C
A C B
C B A
B A C

Which one is most correct is directly affected by how the "trigger ref tooth table" appears along with the small adjustments of the the trigger tooth and "TDC  after the trigger".

Start off with "TDC after the trigger at about 60 degrees and trigger tooth 4, this is a standard setting that should work for most stock Bosch configurations. The trigger tooth can in your case be between 0 and up to 19, it must not be 20 or higher since 20x6 degrees for every tooth is = 120 degrees. If you must offset the trigger tooth that much to get cyl 1 to appear in the right place you need to rotate the ignition output table instead as each rotation in that table is 120 degrees. The idea is that the highest value in the trigger tooth ref table never exceeds 60 teeth (contains "0, 20, 40"), the missing teeth causes a reset in the number of counted teeth so the last ignition event never happens.

Always strobe cyl 1.

[lost]

Thanks! 

I changed only one thing: trigger tooth refrence to: 0,40,20,0,40,20 as you told me, checked it with timing light and it's aligned at 43degrees.

Everything else is same as before.

[lost]

Your trigger tooth ref table should read 0, 40, 20, 0, 40, 20 for faster starting.

If your firing order is 1-4-2-5-3-6 and the cyls are connected like :
Stepper B = 1&5
Stepper C = 4&3
Stepper A = 2&6

The coils will/must fire in this order if that is true : B, C and then A.

I installed COPs on car today, now it working on two cyl's, sometimes it catches on 4 cyls on light throttle.

New spark plugs are on the car,

Stepper B = 1&5  cyl  - spark plug is "brown"
Stepper C = 4&3 cyl   - spark plug is white (like NEW)
Stepper A = 2&6 cyl   - spark plug is all black

Any tips    I checked before with strobe cyl#1 and it was correct at 43 deg.

EDIT: i have spark on all 6 cops when checking... onley fire order is somehow wrong 

[lost]

Making progress.. just after reading Matthias post three times i decided to change outputs (backwards)

Changed from BCA to BAC in this table. Used timing light, and it's correct same as before, but now it works on all six cylinders...

Is this ok or it could be even better?



Thanks for help guys!

[lost]

This is my log.

http://hotfile.com/dl/57036388/ff4dc00/v3.3_n002183-2010.07.23-19.37.25.rar.html

Exhaust smells strange, and thre's alot of smoke.
Engine gets hot really quick ( water temp sensor lies for about 6c).
I did make two passes of tune by statistics in garage...
Maybe changing cop fire order would help?

I get error "tooth width" and whatever i do it wont go away.
Im using 1.1.74 and latest vemstune
Just noticed that MAP multiplication is ON... does it need to be ON?

Thanks

Heres another log.. http://hotfile.com/dl/57037854/513bd55/v3.3_n002183-2010.07.23-19.24.42.rar.html

[lost]

I switched back from COP to stock dizzy. config is the same.
Now theres no more smoke, and engine seems alot cooler.

WHY?

I tried to change fire order of wasted spark cops before but it wont start at dieffrent settings...

here are logs: with cops and with dizzy
http://rapidshare.com/files/408792990/alfav6T_logs.rar

[MWfire]

Where are you from(what city)?
Maybee is better that i come to you and set all settings correct.

[lost]

Hi i'm back with problems 

Here are my two small logs of car idling with different injector output order
http://fileape.com/dl/ekbw9xr8Z5Hlx4Xx
(to download first click regular, then after countdown click "click here to download")

heres what we know:
-vems v3.5 1.1.74 fw
-stock alfa v6 turbo 2.0
-primary trigger vr 60-2 stock alfa
-TDC after trigger strobed to 43degrees
-alfa v6 fire order: 1,4,2,5,3,6
-Using fixed stock distributor and single bosch coil, (identical to 6cyl E30 bmw)
-injector ch1 is conected to injecotor1 .. inj ch2 to injector2........
-siemens deka ev1 900cc injectors just installed

Car idles, at lambda around 1, but smell from exhaust is terrible one breath and it make you sick 
When engine is cold, then its not so bad. If i turn down ve then lambda goes too lean..

I got some tips to change visual injector output from AndreNL so i made these two logs with that changed, he also pointed out that
primary trigger setting were wrong, (to set trigger tooth to 0) ? Tried that but engine starts and dies in a few seconds.
When making first log spark plugs were clean.

Is it possible to maybe have small air leak before wbo2 sensor and it makes a false reading?
Wbo is just behind turbo.

I need someone to confirm primary trigger, injector settings, injector visual outputs, ignition settings and ego closed loop.
Becouse im not capable to sync everything myself   

My email is topgearv6@gmail.com

[mattias]

Here are my two small logs of car idling with different injector output order

First update to 1.1.91 instead of old 1.1.74 where injector angle curve actually makes sense, and it requires cam sync so I wouldn't chase this problem with how the injectors are fired.  It's easier to get support if you use later firmwares too.
Beware of bad defaults if you upgrade to 1.1.91, developers are (should be) working on it. Press the validate config button until you are sure all bad defaults are gone. Use 1.1.88 if not certain you want to go that far, it has better support.

-primary trigger vr 60-2 stock alfa

Are you sure it's wired with correct polarity?

Update firmware to 1.1.91 and make a 4-5 second triggerlog while cranking. Hold WOT while cranking to activate flood clear = no injectors open and engine will not start. Post the triggerlog file.

I got some tips to change visual injector output from AndreNL so i made these two logs with that changed, he also pointed out that
primary trigger setting were wrong, (to set trigger tooth to 0) ? Tried that but engine starts and dies in a few seconds.

There is no point in setting "first trigger tooth" to 0 but you should lower it one or two teeth to get more margin to the highest advance your engine will use. Right now you have 43 degrees to TDC from the first trigger tooth, an example : if you lower the tooth value from 7 to 5, then you need to add 6+6 degrees to "TDC after the trigger", so it is equal to 43+6+6 = 55 degrees. That would give you identical timing to what you have now, only more margin. Verify with strobe light so that you understand the change made.

I need someone to confirm primary trigger, injector settings, injector visual outputs, ignition settings and ego closed loop.

Your "injector effective rampup" is 1 ms, set that to 0 - it's a better value, the injectors are fast and easy to tune.
Raise "injector voltage compensation"  to 500 us.

I would raise or remove "overrun fuelcut" settings until the engine runs well and has a nicely tuned VE table.

You should only need max +/- 10% lean/rich for EGO correction when you're done tuning. If you're using it to form your new VE table, then it's ok to let it correct a lot like you are now (25%).
Give the EGO correction more warmup time, 60 secs is a good default. That value needs some documentation, I'm still not sure the correction is doing the right thing before the actual lambda heating is done and you can read the sensor value.