Author Topic: do you mind checking out my logs?  (Read 10177 times)

Offline multiplex

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do you mind checking out my logs?
« on: March 12, 2008, 02:41:57 am »
just want to confirm that things seem to be working well. I'm scheduled for some dyno time in the next two weeks, and want any issues taken care of before hand.

I just moved up from the 2.5 map sensor to 4, and also went from 42lbs injectors to 63.

My main concern is my VE table scaling.  The idle area has really low values (10) and the boost area is getting close to max.

I'm trying to make it to 25 psi. SO far the highest bin i have road tuned is 242kps @ 5300 rpm.  That value is 218.

So i don't have that much headroom to make it to 270kpa at higher rpm's.

I wonder if as they add timing i will run out of fuel?

The larger injectors are definitely doing the trick. Where previously i was hitting 75 duty cycle at 200kpa, i can now do that at 240kpa.

I'll apologize upfront for the massive log file. 5megs.

Also, i'm using 1.1.26 firmware

Thanks!

http://voytilla.com/vems/1-1-26.msq

http://voytilla.com/vems/log.xls

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: do you mind checking out my logs?
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2008, 11:48:13 am »
Okay, you need to look at your lambda table because PW is the VE table value / Lambda table value at any given pressure and RPM.

You want a table that has 1.0 at idle part throttle and low loads, around 0.9 at higher RPM, and from the point where you start making power through boost you are looking at 0.95 upto 0.8 at the highest boost and RPM.  You'll find that this will considerably flatten your map out.

I looked at your lambda map and it says 0.29 throughout... Which is clearly wrong, what does it show on yours?

Offline multiplex

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Re: do you mind checking out my logs?
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2008, 01:31:35 pm »
ok there might be a couple reasons for that  ;D

i recently converted over from lambda to afr, mostly because i'm taking the car for tuning and these guys are probably not used to working in lambda.

so my msq file doesn't have a lambdatable entry. Instead it has an afrBins1 entry.

I tried leaving it set as lambdatable, but megalogviewer (even with the config file changed) wouldn't pick up my table in the VE analyzier. So i had to change the settings to afrBins1.

All this makes it easier for me to go back and forth between MT and MLV, but probably doesn't help out outsiders.

here is my vems.ini file for megatune

http://voytilla.com/vems/vemsv3.ini

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: do you mind checking out my logs?
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2008, 05:10:57 pm »
So give me a quick idea of what your AFR values are set to at idle and at peak RPM&Boost

Offline multiplex

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Re: do you mind checking out my logs?
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2008, 05:27:48 pm »
my afrs at idle are targeted at 14.7  (although the engine likes to run richer than that)

afrs above 166kpa go to 11.25 and then 11 at 242kpa.

i guess those could be back off a bit - but i was trying to be safe

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: do you mind checking out my logs?
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2008, 02:38:32 pm »
Those values all seem correct, I think its worth trying to work in Lambda though, it is the correct way to work and I'm not sure how the AFR values work with regards to the lambda values that you've interpreted there.

Rob

Offline multiplex

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Re: do you mind checking out my logs?
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2008, 02:57:55 pm »
i agree about lambda.  just trying to make it easier on the tuner. Don't want to get in there and have them be like, what the hell is this bro. bro we can't tune this thing bro.  ::)

any thoughts on the scaling of the VE table though?  Why does it seem like some peoples table values are closer together, ie 30 at idle to 80 at full.

where mine spreads from 10 to potentially 255.

is that common?

thanks for your help


Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: do you mind checking out my logs?
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2008, 05:22:00 pm »
Quite often it can be about the injector settings, or the req_fuel.  But both of these settings look fine.
We often suggest that the req_fuel values are halfed so that double the resolution is available.  How did you calculate your req_fuel?

Offline BenFenner

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Re: do you mind checking out my logs?
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2008, 08:03:49 pm »
I don't know where you're from, but the tuners should be familiar with, and be able to tune based on lambda values. If not, calmly explain to them what lambda is. Maybe point them to the wikipedia article. At the least, carry a calculator with you and tell them any A/F ratio they want, you can tell them what the lambda is. They can give you 14.7:1 and you'll divide 14.7 by 14.7 and tell them "1.0" lambda. They say 15.5:1 and you divide 15.5 by 14.7 and say "1.05". They say 12.2:1, you take 12.2 and divide by 14.7 and say "0.83". Do that a couple times and they'll get used to it very quickly. They should even start to prefer it.

As for your high VE numbers... I don't know how many times I've seen this. Someone hears that 12.2:1 is a safe ratio to run for a turbo car, so somewhere along the lines they add their own measure of safety into the mix, and call it 12.0:1. A couple more recommendations down the line of people adding their own margin of safety, and you get the idea that 11.0:1 is a good A/F ratio to run. It is not. 12.2:1 is safe. 12.0:1 is rock solid, stupidly safe. Even then us Americans get made fun of by the European tuner community for our "insanely pig rich" turbo tuning at 12.0:1 A/F. Even cliffb75's calibration guide on this forum recommends nothing richer than 12.9:1 calling anything richer "over fueling". This is what we're doing when we take the ratio down to 12.2:1. We over fuel, for safety. There's no reason to take this down to 11.0:1!
If you tune up to 12.0:1 at the very least (maybe 12.2:1) then you'll notice your VE values get much, much lower. The difference in your setup between 11.0:1 and 12.0:1 at 240 kPa is probably anywhere from 40 to 80 units. Your value of 218 now turns into 150 or so; something much more like what the rest of us running high boost have in that map area.

I know rob isn't the kind of guy to second guess someone's A/F ratios, but I am. You should give what I've said some consideration.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2008, 08:06:16 pm by BenFenner »
1994 Black SE-R (VEMS, going turbo)
1994 Black SE-R (with sunroof)

Offline gunni

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Re: do you mind checking out my logs?
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2008, 12:28:53 am »
He´s running 25psi, and I don´t know the efficiency his turbo has at that boost level,
most don´t have that good range there unless something like a diesel application or similar,
anyway he´s going to be running some serious intake temps from the boosting alone.
And I´ll assume his head and cooling system is not up to the task of removing the heat generated
from the combustion every cycle at that high of boost, aside from possible detonation from intake
temps. If the heat is not removed it get´s worse every cycle until continuous detonation starts.
Dead engine in an instant. That´s why you flush more then required fuel in there so that the excess fuel
removes the heat when it´s pushed back out. This is only when the heat is not removed using the cooling system and because of detonation hazard is so to speak.

I would design the setup so that 12.5 would be the ideal afr to run on petrol. i.e not high strung turbo´s
or intercooler setups, cooling system, small exhaust and or exhaust manifold.

Offline multiplex

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Re: do you mind checking out my logs?
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2008, 01:30:20 am »
thanks for the feedback guys.

yeah 11's in my table are definitely overkill. As is my timing, but i wanted to make sure i kept my motor together. I plan to pull out fuel, especially since i'm also running 50/50 water/meth injection to keep down intake temps and increase octane of pump gas.

I'm really looking for the tuner to dial in these areas, and i just want to make sure i present my car in the best way possible.

i know i can convert lambda, i have to do it all the time for people who ride in my car. Its just not as common over here in the states and its like preaching to the choir sometimes.

some background on the motor in question.

8:5-1 built S52 (3.2l 24v BMW motor)
GT35r Turbo
63lbs injectors

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: do you mind checking out my logs?
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2008, 01:21:01 pm »
Please put a project thread up with some nice shots of your car, its always good to see people's project and helps promote VEMS as we get a good number of visitors who will see the range of cars and engines we can run with.