Has anyone seen lambda readings in a log file, but no ego correction happening?

[Tony C]

right Rob,
managed to get the loom moved to battery, and a datalog, still no ego and yup still spikes,
http://www.v-8.org.uk/zipfiles/log21_03_08.zip

[rob@vems.co.uk]

No resets though.

Small mercies but its something positive.
Those RPM spikes kick unwanted fuel in.

Theres very few places where the lamdba target and actual lambda are particularly different, so its not an awful state of tune...

[Tony C]

the spikes are not uniform or in a pattern,
i jotted down soem info earlier, as i thought a pattern was forming but it was not, most the spikes appear around 50-56kps and around 1-3% tps, but then in that log there is 2 spikes at66 kpa and79 kpa those two are early on in the first minutes and then the other 3 are time lines 226.47, 388.64 and 658.49

[Tony C]

I know every one is going to say no,
but could something with in the ecu be causing these spikes?
you say it could be a software problem causing the non working ego, could this be also doing something to the ecu settings and causing the spikes?
Once David is free i will arange for him to pop over and take a look at the ecu, as i to want this sorted and working as it should be,
will get David to change that chip so the fuel pump can go back on the correct channel,
could that chip be arcing and causing a spike?

[rob@vems.co.uk]

Is the P259 dead then?

Theres so little current there that arcing is unlikely.  Its not a good thing to have a dead chip, nor is it a show stopper.

Its a real pain in the arse for us both this, I wish I could pull some magic out the hat and cure these problems.

[Tony C]

when we first set the ecu up rob, Jago and I.
if you remember while on the fone to you it blew a relay, we replaced the relay and the pump would not energise anymore,
you said sounds like something had blown and to move to pin 30 something etc and you told me how to change the pump channel to compensate,
the pump fired up then and was fine,
i too dont like problems, and would like the pump back on its right full channel on the ecu and pin in the connector,
later this year i want to go to ignition too,
thus why i want pump sorted, the spikes sorted and the ego working, so all the probs and faults are sorted before i take on another project,
what could be blown then to stop the pump? and how can we check to see if the p259 is dead?
ta mate.

[Bat]

Hi,
No expert here so be prepared for me to be wrong...
When P259 goes doesn't it usually pull down the VR too, meaning a leg or the chip has to be removed?
If the chip is still in place could it be upsetting the VR signal?
Cheers,
Gavin

[rob@vems.co.uk]

Correct, but Tony is using Hall

[Tony C]

Correct, but Tony is using Hall

 

so back to mine, how can i tell if the P259 has died then? any way of testing it???
took car for another run today, i must be getting there with the VE as can get her to spin the tyres 1st, 2nd and 3rd while cruising at around 25-30mph then nail the throttle,
just playing with the WOT settings now to lean them off a bit.

[Tony C]

reason im changing the WOT 100-110kpa settings as the car seems to be lazy when you nail the foot to the floor then picks up and goes,
if you go to 1/2 or 3/4 throttle it dont seem to bad, hardly any lazyness, its only when you nail it to the floor it seems to be a bit lack luster then goes.

[Jorgen]

You have a number of potential problems to look at.

It is likely that the P259 died when the relay failed. We have seen it fail before when a cheap relay has been used, cheap relays not only fail often they often cause very strong flyback that can also kill the P259 driver chip. I strongly suggest only using Bosch or Hella relays.

A P259 failure can cause problems for all functions working on the same bus, this includes display, ignition and stepper subsystems. The P259 can also fail without affecting anything but the VR trigger inputs. A broken P259 chip can cause power ground noise to get into the logic ground by shorting the two grounds together inside the chip.

IIRC you trigg the ECU from the tach output on the MSD 6AL box, is that correct?

If that is correct we could look at a problem with this signal. The MSD should be grounded to the battery according to MSD, a bit wierd but that is how they want it. This will of cause the ref point for the tach output to be far from the ref point for the engine management system. A bad connection or a surge of current on the MSD ground lead could possibly cause some noise on the tach output from the MSD. Just guessing here but that is one of the things I would look at. Since you don't run ignition we could fit a small filter on the hall trigger input to remove high frequency noise from this signal. This is much harder when we run ignition from the ECU as a filter will always cause a delay, for injection this is not critical.

There is an other possible problem, we have seen some odd behaviour when the alternator has a high charging voltage. I don't know why I came to think of this now, but if your voltage is higher then specified you should check the voltage quality of the alternator as this indicate a problem with the alternator. Alternators that has a slightly high voltage often have extremely bad voltage quality. Often with very high spikes that will trigg our overvoltage protection. Any voltage under 14.0v is safe but above that is a warning unless the alternator has a 14.4v or higher regulator. If the voltage is stable and without spikes when measuring with a scope it will not cause a problem for our ECU. The overvoltage protection kicks in around 18v, not that many shop chargers have spikes far higher then 18v.

Jörgen Karlsson
Gothenburg, Sweden.

[Tony C]

i use a mallory mal 684 cdi ignition box, similar to the MSD, and yes it has a tach output that the ecu is conected too Jorgen,
you say about the filter, will this be removable? because when i go to ignition the cdi box will be coming out as will be going coil packs with wasted,

If the P259 is not dead what would cause the pump to stop working on the said channel?
or is there some thing else to check?

relays i use ripaults as we use at work, and the ones in the car have been on the efi system now since the VEMS install 2yr ago, and have been fault free, (thank god) (was using bosch as what came in the ready made loom when the relay died and pump stopped)

Im looking at changing the alternator to a higher ampage one,
so will look at getting a scope put on it, have had no said problems with alternator before, pity i never got a log when we first installed the ecu, before the pump went down, cos we could of seen if the spikes were there then too.

[rob@vems.co.uk]

Whats you current suituation regarding needing the car?

I think its at the point where it needs to come back here so I can test what has and has not blown.  And work out what needs to be repaired.

Rob

[Tony C]

hi Rob,
as far as i know the car is show and race free for the next 3 weeks,
will check with the club sec, to make sure though, and let you know,
you want just the ecu sent back yeah?

If you give me a rough guide of how long you recon you may need it for and i can juggle things around you mate, if thats ok?

[rob@vems.co.uk]

I can usually get things sorted in a couple of days - if we've shat a big component it might take a few more.
I tend to keeep p259 chips hanging around.