Trigger question

[pete95zhn]

Hello to everyone!  This is my first post here, I decided to ask my questions also here because it's been awfully quiet in the VEMS Wiki... My car is "slightly" modified Porsche 944 turbo and I'm using Auditrigger adjusted to Porsche system ( 2x VR sensor, 132+1 tooth, pin on the flywheel 24,5 teeth BTDC ) with Firmware 1.1.24.

To the problem:

When checking my ignition timing with a stobe light, I got a ign_tdcdelay of 41 degrees - 52 hex with divider 2. Ign crank advance was set to 0 and trigger_tooth = 1. If I set trigger_tooth = 0, the ign_tdcdelay is 47 degrees - 5E hex with divider 2, as it should be, and the engine runs as previously, as it should do. But the difference to the existing system is still 20 degrees: (24,5 x 2,7272*)-5,5* = 66,8*-5,5* = 61,5*

What's the explanation to this??

These are the settings I got readily counted, translated from finnish:

rpmk=3000 (12000 / 4 cyl)
rpmk[0]=0B
rpmk[1]=B8

divider=01

alternate=13 ,if all injectors on at start
alternate=03
coil type, NO filtering, bit6=1 auditrigger=enabled, bit7=1 divide by 2
primary_trigger=C3
secondary_trigger=19

132 / 2 = 66 = 42 hex
tooth_wheel=42
triggered 132*2 tooth / 4 cyl = trigger every 66. tooth
divider = 2 ie software sees trigger every 33. tooth
another_trigger_tooth=21
crank_minper=33

divide-by-2 set, eie 132/2=66 tooth / crank ie ~5.5 (5.4545..) degrees, 22*0.25 degrees = 16hex
tooth_wheel_twidth1=16
tooth_wheel_twidth2=00

cam_sync_r_edge_phase=00

cam_sync_f_edge_phase=00

not in use
reset_engphase_after=40
min 0, max 22 (dec), 1 = 5.5deg ATDC
trigger_tooth=01
syncmark is 24.5 tooth, 66.8 deg B #1 TDC
66.8 - 5.5 = 61.5 = 7B(hex)
ign_tdcdelay=7B
ign_out=70

ignchmax=03

Reftooth array (dec 0, 33, 66, 99 - from top to bottom).
h[1]=00 63 42 21 00 00 00 00

Here's few more minor issues to be solved:

-while ICV is functioning, it clicks at approx rate of 4-6 clicks / second. What should I adjust to remove clicking?

-while ICV is functioning, idle rpm is high despite the throttle is fully closed. Is adjusting the iac_ref_pos the correct way to solve this?

One bigger issue: Pulse Width in MegaTune remains in 0.2ms all the time. Is this an indication of malfunctioning hardware or software??


My VEMS Wiki homepage: http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FPeteKrgr

TIA, Pete

[pete95zhn]

Somehow I understand that my questions may be completely uninteresting to everybody else, but not a single comment.... 

[Tcal]

Ohoh, onhan täällä muitakin suomalaisia...

But hey, i´ll answer in english...

Does your Icv use pwm? Mine does and it rattled too, i set iac actuator speed/pwm freq to 0 and it cured that rattling sound.
That valve moves much smoother with that value...
I´m having same kind of issues with that ref table, sometimes value 56 is good and next day i should  use 55 in warm engine.
I´m thinking that i should really start to tune that Idle PID controller...

[rob@vems.co.uk]

I've just been given the following instructions: To stop the IACV clicking:
Set iac_cold_start_pos & iac_warm_start_pos to 0.

BTW, the reason you did not get any reply on this is because for some reason it was not flagged as new, I've missed a couple of posts because of this.

I'm not entirely sure why your having the trigger issue, and I'm not entirely sure what you mean when you say the difference is 20degree different from existing system.

Cheers

Rob

[pete95zhn]

I've just been given the following instructions: To stop the IACV clicking:
Set iac_cold_start_pos & iac_warm_start_pos to 0.

BTW, the reason you did not get any reply on this is because for some reason it was not flagged as new, I've missed a couple of posts because of this.

I'm not entirely sure why your having the trigger issue, and I'm not entirely sure what you mean when you say the difference is 20degree different from existing system.

Cheers

Rob

Thanks about IAC instructions, Rob & Tcal! 

What I mean about that 20 degree difference is that if my trigger pin is 24,5 teeth ( = 24,5 x 2,7272 = 66,8 deg ) BTDC, I can only read 41 deg with strobe when Ign crank advance is set to 0 and trigger_tooth = 1. If trigger_tooth = 0 the strobe shows 47 deg. So ign advance moves with trigger tooth settings as it should, but what explains this 20 deg separation with crank pin position and strobed ( indicated ) tdc_delay? What I've thought is that I should get the same degree setting from "both ends of the engine"...ie mechanical and electronic.



"Configuring Ignition
In the 'settings' -> 'Priming, Cranking, Afterstart' window in megatune you find a field called 'Crank Advance(deg)' set that to 0 for now. That will make it easier to set the base timing.

Now make an easy to see mark at #1 TDC on the pulley and strope the engine when cranking. In the 'Settings' -> 'Trigger settings' window in megatune you find a field called 'TDC after the trigger(deg)' Change the value in that field until the timing light show that you have 0 deg timing when cranking.

If you need to set more then around 75 - 80 degrees in that window you should increment the 'Trigger tooth' field in the same window and try again. Each increment will lower the 'TDC after the trigger(deg)' with six degrees.

After you are satisfied with the settings you set the 'Crank Advance(deg)' to 10-15 degrees. You will need to experiment with the advance, this is part of the tuning process. You may find that a level that acceptable for cold start causes problems when the engine is warm."

[rob@vems.co.uk]

Well I dont know to be honest.  If you have 47degrees you should be okay as you should not be using more advance than that.
Just make sure that you check the advance at various points in the rev range with no load on the engine.

[pete95zhn]

Well I dont know to be honest.  If you have 47degrees you should be okay as you should not be using more advance than that.
Just make sure that you check the advance at various points in the rev range with no load on the engine.

OK, so I just have to live with that. Then to this another issue: Pulse Width in MegaTune remains in 0.2ms all the time. Is this an indication of malfunctioning hardware or software?? Isn't that a too low number even at idle??

At this moment I can't give any trigger logs etc, because the exhaust manifold is on the table and 50% of it is cracked, but I hope I can get it fixed by the end of this week. What should I check and what data collect to get this solved?

[rob@vems.co.uk]

0.2 is too low for anything - what are your required fuel, cranking and afterstart values?

Is Anti-lag definately switched off?

[rob@vems.co.uk]

Theres been a change published regarding this triggering system:
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=InputTrigger%2FAudiTrigger

[pete95zhn]

0.2 is too low for anything - what are your required fuel, cranking and afterstart values?

Is Anti-lag definately switched off?

My config is on my VEMS wiki home page ( in hex ), I'll post dec values tomorrow. Anti-lag should be turned off. I'll check it too.

[rob@vems.co.uk]

If you use the generate config with defaults it kills all ALS settings.

Rob

[rob@vems.co.uk]

To check your fuel pulse issues, increase the cranking pulsewidths up to something like 10ms each

Rob

[pete95zhn]

OK, most of the problems were solved with checked & corrected config.


primep=0A
primep_temp_scaling=1A
cwl=28
cwh=0D
cranking_thres=03
awev=1E
awev_temp_scaling=17
awec=28
warmup_clt_range[0]=00
warmup_clt_range[1]=11
warmup_clt_range[2]=23
warmup_clt_range[3]=32
warmup_clt_range[4]=51
warmup_clt_range[5]=63
warmup_clt_range[6]=75
warmup_clt_range[7]=8C
warmup_clt_range[8]=B4
warmup_clt_range[9]=C6
warmup_clt[0]=8C
warmup_clt[1]=8C
warmup_clt[2]=8C
warmup_clt[3]=8C
warmup_clt[4]=8C
warmup_clt[5]=8C
warmup_clt[6]=85
warmup_clt[7]=7E
warmup_clt[8]=6C
warmup_clt[9]=64
warmup_rpm_scale=66
req_fuel=24
divider=01
alternate=03
injopen=00
battfac=13
kpafac=C8
kpaoffs=9A
injocfuel=15
injrampup_battfac=FF
injpwm=FF
injpwmt=FF
als_launch_input=0C
rpmk[0]=0B
rpmk[1]=B8
tpsdot_kpadot_conf=16
tpsdotrate[0]=02
tpsdotrate[1]=05
tpsdotrate[2]=08
tpsdotrate[3]=0F
tpsaq[0]=0A
tpsaq[1]=32
tpsaq[2]=64
tpsaq[3]=FA
als_cut_mintps=00
tpsasync=FF
acmult=71
tpsacold=1E
launch_enrich=00
launch_retard=00
overrun_fuelcut=4A
overrun_fuelresume=19
rev_limit=28
airden_ignore=00
config11=30
config12=30
config13=02
batt_cal=C0
fastidle=0C
als_max_cut=E0
dbaro=FF
tps_low=22
tps_high=FF
fan_temp=E1
fan_hyst=02
fan_channel=4F
iac_step_seq=64
iac_conf=68
iac_max_steps=1E
iac_tps_thres=0D
iac_cold_idle_temp=B4
iac_warm_idle_temp=AB
iac_cold_rpm=6E
iac_warm_rpm=5A
iac_cold_start_pos=99
iac_warm_start_pos=66
iac_afterstart_rpm=14
iac_afterstart_duration=96
iac_speed=02
iac_kp=74
iac_ki=67
iac_kd=E2
launch_rpm=FF
iac_integral_limit_dec=0F
iac_integral_limit_inc=20
iac_integral_deadband=04
iac_deadband=04
als_cut_maxtps=FF
iac_overclose_interval=30
iac_ref_pos[0]=75
iac_ref_pos[1]=73
iac_ref_pos[2]=70
iac_ref_pos[3]=6E
iac_ref_pos[4]=6B
iac_ref_pos[5]=6E
iac_ref_pos[6]=6B
iac_ref_pos[7]=69
iac_ref_pos[8]=66
iac_ref_pos[9]=66
iac_sol_channel=60
iac_ign_slope=78
softrpm_range=00
iac_ign_advance_limit=10
iac_ign_retard_limit=08
iac_ign_threshold=3C
ego_conf=06
ego_lag=14
ego_coolant=B4
ego_maxtps=80
ego_maxmap=3C
ego_minrpm=0F
ego_maxrpm=32
ego_warmup=5A
ego_lean_limit=26
ego_rich_limit=03
ego_pid_kp=1E
als_enrich=00
ego_delta=03
ego_target=19
ego_pid_window=FF
wbo2_warmup_ramp=A0
als_react_tps=FF
wbo2_abs_limit=E4
wbo2_limit_maxt=A0
wbo2_fallback=B0
wbo2_retry_t=06
als_retard_rpm1=00
als_retard_rpm2=03
wbo2_ri_target=96
wbo2_nernstdc_target=86
wbo2_pump_pw_zero=67
wbo2_calibration=BF
wbo2_heater_pid_kp=46
wbo2_heater_pid_ki=10
wbo2_heater_pid_kd=1A
wbo2_heater_pid_ilimit=80
wbo2_pump_pid_kp=15
wbo2_pump_pid_ki=4E
wbo2_pump_pid_kd=00
wbo2_pump_pid_ilimit=84
wbo2_ri_confidence_scale=80
knock_conf=FD
knock_sampling_window=F3
knock1_frequency=E3
knock1_gain=C0
knock1_integrator=EF
knock2_frequency=E3
knock2_gain=C0
knock2_integrator=EF
knock_threshold=00
knock_noise_scale=00
knock_max_retard=18
knock_default_retard=08
knock_retard_step=08
knock_retard_delay=07
knock_advance_step=04
knock_advance_delay=0D
knock_minrpm=0F
knock_maxrpm=48
ve_learn_coolant=C6
ve_learn_max_power=FF
ve_learn_rpm_scale=32
ve_learn_kpa_scale=32
ve_learn_ego_scale=32
ve_learn_min_weight=01
ve_learn_speed=64
ve_learn_limit=40
ve_learn_conf=01
lcd_c0=0F
lcd_delay=2F
lcd_backlight=FF
kpa_conf=22
als_igncut_rpm2=03
als_retard_mintps=00
als_retard_maxtps=FF
lcd_default_view=01
primary_trigger=C3
secondary_trigger=19
tooth_wheel=42
trigger_tooth=01
another_trigger_tooth=21
crank_minper=33
tooth_wheel_twidth1=16
tooth_wheel_twidth2=00
cam_sync_r_edge_phase=00
cam_sync_f_edge_phase=00
reset_engphase_after=40
ign_tdcdelay=7F
ign_dwell14=27
ign_dwell6=CC
ign_crank_advance=20
ign_out=70
ignchmax=03
engine_off_delay=08
pump_on_mintime=02
fuelpump_channel=57
inj_stage2_rate=00
inj_stage2_start_tps=FF
inj_stage2_start_map=FF
als_igncut_rpm1=00
als_deact_time=01
als_deact_egt=00
als_retard=00
als_rev_limit=FF
misc1out_minrpm=08
misc1out_maxrpm=3C
misc1out_mintps=00
misc1out_maxtps=CC
misc1out_minmap=14
misc1out_maxmap=A0
misc1out_channel=0F
misc2out_minrpm=FF
misc2out_maxrpm=FF
misc2out_mintps=FF
misc2out_maxtps=FF
misc2out_minmap=FF
misc2out_maxmap=FF
misc2out_channel=0F
act_wot_rpm=FF
act_wot_channel=FF
act_rpm_rpm=FF
act_rpm_channel=FF
egt1_cal=4B
als_tks_channel=FF
boost_conf=00
boost_targetoffs=FF
boost_minpressure=FF
boost_pid_kp=FF
boost_pid_ki=FF
boost_pid_kd=FF
boost_pid_ilimit=FF
boost_channel=FF
water_pump_temp=7E
hybrid_rpm_a=00
hybrid_rpm_m=00
water_pump_hyst=00
water_pump_channel=8F
toothrel_normal=FF
toothrel_missing=FF
fuelcut_min_kpa=0A
fuelcut_max_kpa=C8
tach_channel=F2
tach_div=10
shiftcut_conf=ED
shiftcut_channel=FF
shiftcut_time=FF
softrpm_rpm=46


h[0]=02 08 04 01 00 00 40 80
h[1]=00 63 42 21 00 00 00 00
h[2]=32 22 32 22 02 02 02 02

[rob@vems.co.uk]

Are you running your injectors batched?

[pete95zhn]

Are you running your injectors batched?

Yep. I'm not quite sure if I'm able to run them sequential with this trigger. I would like to...