Author Topic: Low Z Injector Peak And Hold add on board???  (Read 9013 times)

Offline Sprocket

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Low Z Injector Peak And Hold add on board???
« on: September 22, 2007, 12:04:48 am »
Ok, so people feel there are issues with running PWM on Low z injectors, and i am aware of this. From what I have researched is that the OEM use Peak and Hold, so i thought, how can i do this? Low and behold, i found something on Megsquirt forum by another Mini enthusiast, infact its the same chap i mentioned in one of my other topics on dual table firmware and siamese port injection, Jean Belanger. He has designed and built an add on board for the Megasquirt to convert its lowley two injector outputs to P&H.

http://www.jbperf.com/p&h_board/index.html

Ok,

Any one smart enough to help me work out how I can mod the GenBoard V3 to wire this in to four of my eight injector outputs. I know for a fact that I wont ever be using all eight drivers at once, I have the two DPAK FET drivers installed for extra outputs. I was thinking of maybe INJ drivers 4,5,6,7 converted to P&H, either using this board hard wired internaly (pakaging could be difficult) or building the board into an external unit. I realise that he FETs onboard need to come off which ever, and the rewire the gate. The bit i am really confused with is the FET driver circuit. I have had a look at the GenBoard schematic, but, i dont understand it one bit, its not like what i had expected, maybe Simplified?? i just cant follow it logicaly. Looks to me as if the add on board uses the raw injector signal from the processor??

It cant be that complicated can it to get this to work, can it?

And before anyone says just use a resistor in series with the injector, I am, I want to bin it, as I know for a fact that the injector characteristics have drasticaly changed!! so much so that the injector thats installed was the one when used on the OEM ECu, flat lined and went lean at full throttle. Ramp up times are huge with maybe slower ramp closed, even with transient diode, dont forget High z ingectors resistance is the injector coil where as Low Z and resistor, more than half the resistance is the resistor, it must play some part in the equasion of things, and i think it is this thats 'increasing' the physical flow rate of the injector. I recon i could get away with using the original injector that was fitted to the car which would originaly max out at around 80bhp. Dont get me wrong, the resistor works a treat, its just not what i want. I now have the engine running well enough to start experimenting, i just dont want to smoke the ECU.

This could be an interesting project :D

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: Low Z Injector Peak And Hold add on board???
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2007, 09:10:31 am »
With a quick look (and note I am guessing here) I am guessing that you can remove the FETs for the channels you wish to drive, and use the gate signal to connect to the injector control, solder each of the grounds onto the ground lines on the VEMS pcb and run a 5v connection from somewhere suitable (the back of EC36pin28 for example).

You really need to scope the gate signals to make sure they match the required voltage wave forms on page three of the LM1949 datasheet.

One thing I dont see on that circuit which confuses me is the +Vbatt connection which will set the cold cranking drive characteristics.

It is certainly an interesting proposition, but not one that I'd recommend to most users.

Offline Sprocket

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Re: Low Z Injector Peak And Hold add on board???
« Reply #2 on: September 24, 2007, 09:43:42 pm »
Yeh I was thinking that it would be reasonable to use the gate on the removed FET pads, it was just that for the MS hardware, theres a stack load of other components removed from the board, presumably to get back to the raw processor signal? I'll have a dig through and ask Jean some questions, whether he is forthcoming being a MS supporter. Im going to buy the board anyway, its cheap enough.

As for the voltage thing I read it that it doesnt matter much as its current limiting therefore it supplies full voltage untill 4 amps, then drops to 1 amp, so using V/IxR at 8 volts and an injector resistance of 2 ohms that equates to 4 amps  at full voltage anyway.

It sounds to easy, just need to work out how to integrate it correctly.

I was thinking of pulling FETs 4,5,6,7 and jumpering across the fet pads as is sometimes done on the spare IGTB pads, this way bringing it out to the EC36, wiring from there to a seperate case with the P&H board and then off to the injectors. The five volts coming from the EC28 as you suggest.

As for the scope, i havent got one, well not yet, its one of those things on the want list, but they dont look cheap :-\

More reading me thinks ;)

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: Low Z Injector Peak And Hold add on board???
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2007, 08:38:12 am »
For a scope I use a DS1M12 : Stingray that I bought from http://www.easysync.co.uk/index.html?lang=en-uk&target=d16.html

Offline multiplex

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Re: Low Z Injector Peak And Hold add on board???
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2007, 02:04:48 pm »
Nice find sprocket!   keep us updated on your progress.

i have a pile of resistors here for when i switch over to low imp, but i'd rather take a high tech approach.

from the data sheet it looks like a pretty nice chip.


Offline Sprocket

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Re: Low Z Injector Peak And Hold add on board???
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2007, 08:34:12 pm »
Currently waiting on the hardware to turn up from Canada, Vial snail mail :-\

Jean has kindly offered his hilp to look at a way to integrate these boards into VEMS. Im looking at an external case, with some smaller Econoseal connectors.

Watch this space :D

Offline GintsK

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Re: Low Z Injector Peak And Hold add on board???
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2007, 01:14:18 pm »
I have few of this boards. And i have same idea. My current brainstorming is about packaging it inside VEMS ECU. It is possible but not with convenience.

Here is my thread: http://www.vems.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=189.0

Gints