Author Topic: Acceleration enrichment parameters in MT  (Read 18993 times)

Offline dnb

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Acceleration enrichment parameters in MT
« on: July 06, 2007, 10:46:21 pm »
The settings for accel enrich in MT don't appear to be self consistent.

The setting of the 4 bins and the extensions is fine, but these don't show up on the accel enrichment gauge or in the log files.

The gauge seems to show a percentage based on the FIRST bin's extention parameter as a percentage only.  It doesn't matter how fast the throttle is pushed, that's all it will do.  The log is the same.

I now wonder about the implementation in VEMS, and how I measure what it's up to...  Specially now I've thought of a way of working out a way of estimating sensible parameter values from the log.   :)

The best I've come up with is to pull the bins from the XML and estimate deltaTPS from the raw TPS.  It'll be a noisy estimate (rate from position always is) but it's better than nothing.   I can then make up a table of ego correction agains deltaTPS and TPS and work out how much I need to extend (or shrink) the pulsewidth corrections.

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: Acceleration enrichment parameters in MT
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2007, 10:51:09 pm »
The only thing to do is to set dv/dt bins as 1, 5, 20, 40  and work on the enrichment from there.  There's work being done in this area.

Offline dnb

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Re: Acceleration enrichment parameters in MT
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2007, 10:58:12 pm »
So you're saying the bins are fixed (for the moment)?  Not a problem really as the resolution is in the right place...  And that I can't monitor what the ECU does directly - only the effect it has by magnitude of (lambda-lambda_target)

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: Acceleration enrichment parameters in MT
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2007, 11:24:16 pm »
No the bins aren't fixed, but the dv/dt values are the best suggestion for throttle speed.  Then that means you can concentrate on getting the enrichment values right.

Offline dnb

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Re: Acceleration enrichment parameters in MT
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2007, 11:33:38 pm »
OK, that makes sense.  But is there no other way to see what goes on on MT other than the effect on lambda?

Offline cliffb75

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Re: Acceleration enrichment parameters in MT
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2007, 09:19:23 am »
OK, that makes sense.  But is there no other way to see what goes on on MT other than the effect on lambda?

Should be able to see the effect of transient fuel comp on the injector pulsewidth - big spike on tip in.

Lambda is the way to measure if what you're applying is correct for the engine :)

And don't forget transport delays, which are related to airflow, so any effect you see in lambda at low airflows will have actually happened quite some time earlier in the engine. Easy to get confused by that.

Offline dnb

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Re: Acceleration enrichment parameters in MT
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2007, 12:33:07 pm »
I had tried to consider transport delays, but not sure if what I'm doing with the analysis is sensible.

I binned the TPS and calculated deltaTPS then did a pivot table type analysis in excel to see what the average lambda error was and how the average (actual) pulsewidth was different to the base pulsewidth calculated from the VE map.  The transport delays would only be apparent in the lower TPS bins so these can be eliminated from the analysis.  I then calculated the average pulse width extention required to reach the target AFR based on the actual AFR and actual pulsewidth.   

Does this sound sensible?  I could believe the answers.

 

Offline cliffb75

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Re: Acceleration enrichment parameters in MT
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2007, 09:51:16 am »
I had tried to consider transport delays, but not sure if what I'm doing with the analysis is sensible.

I binned the TPS and calculated deltaTPS then did a pivot table type analysis in excel to see what the average lambda error was and how the average (actual) pulsewidth was different to the base pulsewidth calculated from the VE map.  The transport delays would only be apparent in the lower TPS bins so these can be eliminated from the analysis.  I then calculated the average pulse width extention required to reach the target AFR based on the actual AFR and actual pulsewidth.   

Does this sound sensible?  I could believe the answers.

 

I think I follow you - ish

To measure the transport delays the easiest way is to sit at a steady speed load site and then make a step change to the fuelling and watch the effect on lambda. So you need to be open loop, and then just add say 10% extra fuel. From the log you will then be able to measure the time delay between the pulsewidth step and the lambda change. do this at a few different speed/load sites and you can plot a rudimentary curve (against airflow) or map (against speed/load) The results should be linear so you don't need many points.

Once you have that bit of data you can more clearly see what is happening in you transient cal, as you will know when to expect a lambda change. This means you can use your proposed method, but you know exactly when to take the lambda data that you will use to make the PW correction.

I find it useful to keep in my head what I am trying to achieve physically. The trans comp requires 2 parts - an intial large but short duration spike, and a longer, lower duration increase. The spike is to replace any fuel that is initially drawn off the wall on tip in due to a delay in injecting. The second part is to actually compensate the wall film for the additional amount required. It is also useful to go slightly rich during the tip in to improve response and avoid any issues with stumbles etc (most aftermarket 'tuners' seem to achieve this by simply running rich everywhere all the time - OK if fuel economy isn't an issue).

So you want to make sure your steady state VE numbers are correct, then perform step tip-ins from one TPS to another, initially with no trans comp (if it will stand it). Look through the log and identify the shape of the resulting lambda curve, allowing for the transport delay at the initial speed/load condition (calculated from you previously defined map). From this you can identify the required lambda correction during the delta lamda event, and as you say you can then back-calculate for the required pulsewidth increase and ramp out rates. But remeber the timing is quite important, so be careful with using the avarge lamda as that will tend to reult in a lean to rich compensation, which isn't what you want.

As ever, all this is much easier on a dyno so that you can hold a fixed speed, but it is possible to have a good go at it in the car.

Hope that makes some sense... ;D


Offline dnb

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Re: Acceleration enrichment parameters in MT
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2007, 06:26:27 pm »
Very useful info there.  I should really try to break these problems up into bitesize pieces some more ;)

My method did seem to work, but I think it was more by luck!  Today's testing showed significant improvement. :)  I should be able to use your method if I get a chance to do some cal tonight - when the roads are less crowded, then apply the time correction instead of relying on the central limit theorem ;)

I'm interested in what you say about hte 2 parts to trans comp.  Presumably what I've done with the short spike coming from the accel enrich parameters and the longer duration coming from the map (RPM and manifold pressure) will suffice?


Offline cliffb75

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Re: Acceleration enrichment parameters in MT
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2007, 11:05:57 pm »
Very useful info there.  I should really try to break these problems up into bitesize pieces some more ;)

My method did seem to work, but I think it was more by luck!  Today's testing showed significant improvement. :)  I should be able to use your method if I get a chance to do some cal tonight - when the roads are less crowded, then apply the time correction instead of relying on the central limit theorem ;)

I'm interested in what you say about hte 2 parts to trans comp.  Presumably what I've done with the short spike coming from the accel enrich parameters and the longer duration coming from the map (RPM and manifold pressure) will suffice?



I expect it will be fine for what you need, which is acceptable transient response, so you can go a bit to the rich side - i.e. make the spike a bit bigger than is strictly necessary.

OEM stuff has to be much tighter controlled to avoid excessive HC and CO (rich excursion) or NOx (lean excursion) which may then breakthrough the catalyst and give high emissions test results (on the drive cycles - not MOT style emissions tests)

What you're doing all sounds perfectly reasonable given the strategy you have to work with - I'm just taking the opportunity to explain a bit about how its done at an OEM level and why  :)

I'm not sure how VEMS implements the trans comp. I see it has a series of amounts and a duration, but is this a linear or exponential decay? Also the fixed duration (as its implied) is likely to be a bit limiting, so you will need to set it for the worst case (big transient at low to medium engine speeds) and probably accept a rich excursion on smaller tip ins (since it will likely be too long).

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: Acceleration enrichment parameters in MT
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2007, 09:22:19 am »
Discussion is taking place regarding the tip-in strategy, its a linear decay and the fixed duration needs to either be scaled by a factor like RPM or given a table to provide some form of calibration.

Rob

Offline dnb

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Re: Acceleration enrichment parameters in MT
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2007, 10:42:51 am »
Rob - I'd prefer a table given the way the Rover heads flow at high RPM. ;)

Cliff - I'm all ears (well eyes really, but that just sounds daft). 

I'm happy enough with the settings now, at least until I get that dyno time sorted out (hopefully before August - I'd like to win the RR shootout at the Griffith Growl ;) )

Offline cliffb75

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Re: Acceleration enrichment parameters in MT
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2007, 08:05:33 pm »
Rob - I'd prefer a table given the way the Rover heads flow at high RPM. ;)

Cliff - I'm all ears (well eyes really, but that just sounds daft). 

I'm happy enough with the settings now, at least until I get that dyno time sorted out (hopefully before August - I'd like to win the RR shootout at the Griffith Growl ;) )

Let us know when you arrange a dyno session - maybe I'll come along and utter words of encouragement (if you want me to)  :)

Offline dnb

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Re: Acceleration enrichment parameters in MT
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2007, 08:21:32 pm »
It'll be a couple of weeks - I'm waiting for Dulfords to get their rolling road serviced.  I'd very much like you to be there!!

Offline Denmark

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Re: Acceleration enrichment parameters in MT
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2007, 09:02:57 am »
If i put my dv/dt bins at 1, 5, 20, 40,

then it will give accel fuel  from the low dv/dt bin,
so i made mine 3,6,20,40 to overcome that,

The tps on mine is flikkering, but not more then it always stays at 1%, when not pressing the pedal,
But it´s enought to trigger the accel enrichment


/Skassa
working on the boxer