4AGE Anti-Lag setup!!

[Sukhoi]

Hi all,
Currently we are in process of installing VEMS 3.6 on 4age 16V small-port turbo, and like to install anti-lag valve since its a track car, as we are thinking of making it to activate at 4000 or 4500 RPM, but I wonder what Idle valve I can be used to achieve this! how big the valve port should be?
And can such valve be found as OEM on other cars?
And what is the recommended to be, normally closed or normally open Idle valve!!

Does any one have photos for such anti-lag setups to support me with, and have ideas for how to install it?

Thanks in advance guys, all comments are highly appreciated

[GintsK]

In past I tried common Bosch valves from 90ies. I saw these on some rally-cross cars. But I have bad experience: after long opening with direct 12V those sticks opened forever...And for 2L engines one valve seems to small anyway.
Now I tend to use simply pre opened throttle. VEMS is capable to provide some driveability with such setup by controlled injection events interrupts.

It would be nice to find some electrical throttle kicker.

[Pet]

Litle out topic, anyway: how about vacuum for brake power assistent (PAS) ? When you have ALS activated, MAP never drops under 100kpA and after a few brakings you're out of PAS..... AFAIK rally EVOs have to have additional vacuum pump (like diesel car).

[GintsK]

Usually it drops far below 100KPa. Throttle opening is not so extreme. But of course vacuum is less.

[Sukhoi]

Hi, and sorry for being late,I was out of town for short time,

While am out I saw a car that is running ALS , and I liked how the guy installed it, it was Golf with turbo engine, he used the Audi TT throttle valve, its electric throttle valve, it can be driven both ways electronically or by wire, so he installed both , wire for the gas pedal to open the throttle, and the electrical side to hold the throttle open when he activate the ALS, anyone know how this can be done? and is it better than having extra valve or kicker?! I think the kicker will make the wire go lose!!

[billman]

I have a question. My VEMS has these configuration extra:

pin1 mcp3208 pin6,ch5
pin2 mcp3208 pin7,ch6
pin3 mcp3208 pin8,ch7
pin4 EC36 pin 34 (power out)
pin5 EC36 pin 36 (power out)
pin6 GND

I understand that for enabling ALS i must use one of the mcp3208 connections and ground it right?? What should i use to enable a kicker solenoid?

thanks in advance.

[Sukhoi]

Does anyone have a photo for the kicker mounted on the throttle, that would explain much on how mounting mine

Plus where I can find an electrical kicker! anyone know what cars got it as OEM!?

thanks.

[jrussell]

I have a question. My VEMS has these configuration extra:

pin1 mcp3208 pin6,ch5
pin2 mcp3208 pin7,ch6
pin3 mcp3208 pin8,ch7
pin4 EC36 pin 34 (power out)
pin5 EC36 pin 36 (power out)
pin6 GND

I understand that for enabling ALS i must use one of the mcp3208 connections and ground it right?? What should i use to enable a kicker solenoid?

One (or more) of the mcp channels should have a pull-up on it, so you'll read 5V (or it might be 12V) when not connected to anything. The ECU documentation should specify that, or you could measure. You want to put a switch on it to ground it. When it's grounded, that means activated. At least that's how it's usually set up, but could be set up a few different ways.

Use one of the EC36 pin 34 or 36 outputs for the kicker. I haven't found a great kicker yet, but just look for a 12v push solenoid that has the appropriate strength and stroke for your application. There's some freedom in choice there since the bracket will have to be custom anyway.

[mattias]

billman : Under the View menu in VemsTune, bring up the gauge group editor and check out the ADC group, you'll quickly see which inputs have pullup to 5.0 Volt and can be used as simple switches (to ground). The papers that you got with your ECU also go into great detail on this.

[billman]

billman : Under the View menu in VemsTune, bring up the gauge group editor and check out the ADC group, you'll quickly see which inputs have pullup to 5.0 Volt and can be used as simple switches (to ground). The papers that you got with your ECU also go into great detail on this.

i am gonna check it out on VT. I got no papers with the ECU.

[Sukhoi]

Hi again

I was thinking in Group N anti-lag type since I found its hard to locate a good kicker to hold the throttle partially open, therefor I want to ask about this and appreciate all your tips and comment if it been tried before.

I was thinking of fixing the throttle 20% open or what it takes to keep the RPM on 3000 or 3500 RPM, and put in the ALS setting as the following:

Deactivation time = 5 sec (I think it more than enough)
Idle TPS thres/ ALS = 20% (or the TPS reading at 3000 or 3500 RPM)
Reactivation Minimum TPS = 95%

And then activate the Idle Control/spark-cut based (Cyclical Idle) from Starting/Idle Menu to be set at 1200RPM and TPS 20%

I was thinking to do these settings, so when the engine starts, it will start in Cyclical Idle at 1200RPM till the driver floor the pedal to 95% TPS or over, then the ALS will work, and when the driver remove the load on TPS, the RPM will fall back to 3000 or 3500RPM with ALS mode working, and if reached the Deactivation time = 5sec the ALS will shutdown and go back to Idle as spark-cut based (Cyclical Idle)

Is that doable?! anyone tried it!?

Thanks in advance for your help guys




 

[GintsK]

Idling is duable even if throttle opening is at rev limiter. And it is even possible to keep some driveability. Solely not by using ignition cut idle (it cause horrible bangs and waste your fuel) but partial fuel cut idle.
You can switch this mode on by configuring [fuelcur rpm] - [fuelresume rpm] =1100
e.g. 2300 and 1200. Some driveability adjusting can be done by changing both next values lerarned min power and learned max power. I did not find any description what these values do. But trial-error method works here.
Hope this helps.

Gints

[Sukhoi]

Idling is duable even if throttle opening is at rev limiter. And it is even possible to keep some driveability. Solely not by using ignition cut idle (it cause horrible bangs and waste your fuel) but partial fuel cut idle.
You can switch this mode on by configuring [fuelcur rpm] - [fuelresume rpm] =1100
e.g. 2300 and 1200. Some driveability adjusting can be done by changing both next values lerarned min power and learned max power. I did not find any description what these values do. But trial-error method works here.
Hope this helps.

Gints

Thanks for your response Gints, but what about my way? will it work!? here am looking for massive bang sounds and the more scary will be the better will be, as this will only be activated for short time in track days only, like for 6 min every month or less!!

here am using vemstune with 1.1.81 Firmware, so where these settings you said about would be located!!

[GintsK]

No    Bangs will be too strong with ign cut idle. You can try

Bangs comes from ALS action. It is different story. And these are enough for to make an impression on your contenders.

[Sukhoi]

So you mean I should use what I said but using fuel cut idle instead of using ignition cut idle!! ( I didn't get it clearly ) where I can set the fuel cut idle in vemstune menu?!
and what about the ALS settings!! they are kind of too much, but I think that am not getting them!! 



what is ALS Igncut RPM1 and RPM2, I mean why 1 and 2?
same as ALS Retard RPM1 and RPM2?
and in fuel enrichment and ignition retarding area , what is the decrease start TPS and decrease end TPS? same for the ignition cut area