Trigger problems on a pug 106 Turbo

[DaSoP]

Hi guys!
My name is Chris and I am helping a friend to build a Peugeot 106 Turbo!
We bought a Vems v3.3 PnP 3plug from DP(along with some other stuff like manifold and wideband Lamda) with firmware 1.0.53.
We were using Megatune but I tried Vemstune and it needed at least 1.0.73 firmware, so I updated the vems firmware!
Here is our problem! We started building the maps but when then car reaches 4000Rpm(+- 5%) it starts backfiring and stalls!
Through this forum I started reading nearly every post regarding triggerring BUT I can't find the correct numbers...
We are using the standar 60-2 wheel...
The car was ok before the update(don't ask why I did the update...I liked Vemstune a lot!)!
My friend has another peugeot 106 with 1plug vems v3.3 PnP from DP too(which will be NA tuned with Jenveys throttle bodies)!
I checked the settings on the 1plug ecu and I have the same on the 3plug but it won't run...
After some emails with DP I disabled Launch control and ALS but the car does the same thing...
Any help much appreciated!

P.S.:DP told me that the firmware update voids my warranty! But I didn't read anything like this before I bought the ECU!!!

[GintsK]

What trigger error [ TrE ]  indicator do?

[DaSoP]

when I start the engine the indicator is GREEN!
When it reaches around 4000RPM goes RED!...


edit: This is the very first backup config file http://www.box.net/shared/dplpq4xq3g
and this is the last backup config file http://www.box.net/shared/ahcr2yfqx2
THANKS Agriv8!!!

[GintsK]

This means somewhat more mechanical than config related.
Inspect your sensor and teeth wheel. Also gap. If looks OK then you need check signal with o-scope...

[Sprocket]

If anything 1.0.53 firmware sould void the waranty as its an unsuported firmware and all ECUs for what ever reason leave the factory with. 1.0.73 is the up to date 'released' firmware version, all others are either in development or unsuported. This upgrade to 1.0.73 should have no effect on warranty other than any dyno tune warranties.

Having said that, there should be little difference in the firmwares. I do however remember something that differs on the trigger settings. Initially check the air gap between the trigger wheel and the sensor, it shouldn't be any larger than 1mm. Re visit the Primary trigger settings.

Do a datalog while this problom occurs and post it up here.

[Sprocket]

Fuel cut rev limit set at 4500rpm!!??

Why is spark cut idle control enabled with 7000rpm limit? With soft rpm limiter set to 25500rpm (disabled)

[DaSoP]

we have checked the sensor on another car and it is working ok!
We had the vems on a stock car and we had the same problem...
I have the limiter at 4500rpm on purpose so as not damage the engine until we fix the maps! is it bad? should I take it to 8000rpm(where the car is built to reach without any problems)?
Hmmmm...I didn't touch spark cut idle nor soft rpm....Should I do something there?
Sorry but I am completely noob...

[Sprocket]

You say that you get backfiring and cutting out at around 4k rpm the fuel cut is set at 4500rpm. Rev limit spark cut is also enabled which is HARD and happens 200rpm below fuel cut. That to me IS the problem

Move the fuel cut rpm up to the Red line, disable the spark cut rev limit and set the soft cut limiter to 100 rpm below red line with a control range of 300rpm

However, if you are saying that the fuel and spark maps are not yet tuned, that could well be clouding the issue

Or is there something else happening I have not picked up on?

[DaSoP]

I moved the fuel cut at 5000Rpm but there was no change!
But I will do as you say and post again along with the datalog...

Now the only "problem" is that the car is a little far from me and I will be there tomorrow...
Anyway THANKS A LOT! I'll be back tomorrow...

[GintsK]

Sprocket, they have trigger errors. Let start from there!
It means trigger signals matches to ECU setting until 4000. Then somewhat goes wrong. ECU loses tooth count (too less or too much). It can be due some mechanical problem, some wiring problem (inside ECU in this case - such as sensor polarity), may be some ECU trigger related hardware problem. And as last - config problem.

~~~
Edit: just take a look on config. Does reference tooth table is involved in 1.0.73. If is - it must be filled. 30-0 in this case.

Gints

[peter_jensen]

We have seen that problem before and sometimes it helps to remove R30 but see if you have connected the Vr correct. 

[Sprocket]

When I was starting out with vems and tuning the 1400 SPi I could get the engine to stall just by dipping the clutch and lifting off the throttle, I would then bring the clutch back in and the engine would burst back into life. Trigger errors were reported but the engine would run as normal. The trigger error is not reset until key off.

What ever the problem is, a datalog would give something to look at rather than speculate

1.0.73 does not have a reference tooth table

[DaSoP]

You say that you get backfiring and cutting out at around 4k rpm the fuel cut is set at 4500rpm. Rev limit spark cut is also enabled which is HARD and happens 200rpm below fuel cut. That to me IS the problem

Move the fuel cut rpm up to the Red line, disable the spark cut rev limit and set the soft cut limiter to 100 rpm below red line with a control range of 300rpm

However, if you are saying that the fuel and spark maps are not yet tuned, that could well be clouding the issue

Or is there something else happening I have not picked up on?

After setting what you've told me the "problem" moved around 4700Rpm!

this is the log http://www.box.net/shared/8rvfr2tnhc

and this is the last config http://www.box.net/shared/eux8c99z03

My friend(who is the mechanic) believes that something is fried in the ECU!

Thanks again guys!

Edit:I didn't check yet the R30! Just remove it or solder a bridge there? And the VR is correctly connected...We removed the 250Kpa Map and installed the stock ECU(without touching the vr), the car works like it should.