Author Topic: Tunning and HIGH lambda readings  (Read 21444 times)

Offline Agriv8

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
  • BHP: 4
Tunning and HIGH lambda readings
« on: April 26, 2007, 07:38:31 pm »
Hey up decided to start a new topic.

So I have upped my req fuel to 13 as discussed with new laptop and recomended USB to serial lead ( the flashing light are cool by the way  ;D ;D )

Suddenly I am getting lamba readings of 20 + ( thats twenty not 2.0 !! ) in my logs !!! checked in excel and they are definatly there - still got learn mode on.  

I am about to email my logs to dnb and rob just wandering if anyone else has experienced this. Will go and collect some more data

Regards

Agriv8
'The older I get the faster I was'

Offline cliffb75

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 167
  • BHP: 10
Re: Tunning and HIGH lambda readings
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2007, 09:30:01 pm »
20 normally means air, overrun fuel cut or severe misfire

You'd know about it if it was missing enough for that.

Have you checked for exhaust leaks upstream and around the sensor. Is the sensor actually tight in the boss? And the sensor is definately wired in and set up correct? And reading lambda not AFR

Sorry if these are all a bit simple sounding, but its often the simple things that catch us out  :-\

Offline Agriv8

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
  • BHP: 4
Re: Tunning and HIGH lambda readings
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2007, 10:11:02 pm »
Yup I often overlook the obvious the sensor is in tight.

there are possible slight leaks in the exhaust will try gunking these up.

looking at the map again an visialising the route i took - it may be that i was go down hill engine breaking could that have an affect ( thinking fuel cut ) if you look at just before the vertical line it looks like injectors have a pulse width of close to 0 ?

here is a screen shot of the log



further thoughts welcolm I am going of to find somwhere to host some files so that people can swap log files easilly.

regards

Agriv8
'The older I get the faster I was'

Offline Agriv8

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
  • BHP: 4
Re: Tunning and HIGH lambda readings
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2007, 10:48:25 pm »
right found somwhere that does free public access file hosting..

can someone see if they can access the following link to my log from earlier this eve.

http://www.box.net/shared/e1ii2oelyx.

if yes and it would be usefull can write some instructions how to set up / use ect might be useful for people to share maps and logs ect

regards

Agriv8
'The older I get the faster I was'

Offline cliffb75

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 167
  • BHP: 10
Re: Tunning and HIGH lambda readings
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2007, 10:49:40 pm »
So what have you got in the low load line of you VE table? If its tiny numbers, and that equates to smaller than the injectors minumum pulsewidth, they're probably not opening. You won't notice beacuse you are asking for almost no combustion anyway, and iff all the cylinder stop burning, the engine turns very smoothly. The encouraging thing is that when the load goes back up, lambda (eventually) comes back to something sensible.

At first glance it looks like a sensible log. Ignition may be a bit retarded (won't know without a dyno though)

How does it feel to drive - any problems, glitches, stumbles, coughs etc etc?


Offline cliffb75

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 167
  • BHP: 10
Re: Tunning and HIGH lambda readings
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2007, 10:51:00 pm »
right found somwhere that does free public access file hosting..

can someone see if they can access the following link to my log from earlier this eve.

http://www.box.net/shared/e1ii2oelyx.

if yes and it would be usefull can write some instructions how to set up / use ect might be useful for people to share maps and logs ect

regards

Agriv8

Got it  :)

Offline cliffb75

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 167
  • BHP: 10
Re: Tunning and HIGH lambda readings
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2007, 10:59:01 pm »
Just looked through the log

You are indeed getting 0.0 injector pulsewidth - overrun fuel cut  :) so everything is working as it should.

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3115
  • BHP: 49
    • VEMS Forum
Re: Tunning and HIGH lambda readings
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2007, 11:03:02 pm »
Those huge lambda spikes look like overrun fuel cut, what are your settings for that? (Settings->Constants)

Rob

Offline Agriv8

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
  • BHP: 4
Re: Tunning and HIGH lambda readings
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2007, 11:35:13 pm »
rob assume you mean basic settings
.

as there seems to be nothing under settings constants just in case though.




in answer to Cliff how its running ?

I know I shouldnt have done it as it isnt mapped properly but unhooked the laptop and took it for a 3 mile blat in a few words if its this good on patched together maps - I am going to have to start wearing more underwear when it does get tunned properly .

the only very slight issues are
Jittery under slight fuel load / throtle load ( but 100 times beter that stock ecu !!! )
loosing my licence as it acelerates so efortlessly nearly acelerated into the back of a BMW M5 when we got into the national speed limit ( and he wasnt hanging about  ;D ). must remeber to drop the rev limiter until I get her tuned properly.

in a nut shell defiantly a Murry Walker 'Fanatastic absoloutly Fantastic'

I will try and put together a 'How To' for setting up file hosting as it seems to work

regards

Agriv8
'The older I get the faster I was'

Offline cliffb75

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 167
  • BHP: 10
Re: Tunning and HIGH lambda readings
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2007, 07:27:47 pm »
In the basics setting page, see the box 'fuel cut under kPa'? You've got it set at 14, and the MAP is dropping to 2 or 3 in places. The lower down 'overrun fuelcut rpm' and resume means it will do fuelcut any speed above 1700 (and the MAP is below 14), and resume at 1500rpm, regardless of the MAP.

Have a play with these values. My first instinct would be to set the fuelcut rpm up from 1700 to about 2500 so that you don't get fuelcut around town, but depending on the injectors that can make things worse, so you just have to play and see. 1500rpm for resume is about right. 14kPa may or may not be right, depending on the MAP you see on overrun. In your case it gets pretty low, so you could consider lowering this value - maybe try about 8kPa? This might give you better decel control (less of a step change). You can't damage the engine by changing these numbers, so have a play with them and feel the effect on driveability. These are the bits that take time to perfect, but make the difference bewteen a cal that feels like a race car (i.e. full load power only cal) and a road car (proper driveability at low speeds and loads)

But, be a bit careful with your vacuum on overrun. 2 kPa (if thats accurate) is pretty low, and could be enough to start pulling over oil if you are using a returned breather system still. Keep an eye out for blue smoke as you tip back in after an overrun, or pull of some breather hoses and check for excessive oil film. Pulling oil over is bad because it then has to be burned, which lowers the octane rating of the fuel and increases the chance of knock until its cleared. It also puts extra strain on seals (too much pressure difference across them), and finally it also makes you pride and joy look like a smokey old bus  ;D

Glad it drives well - well done. Pat on the back i think  :)

Offline Agriv8

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
  • BHP: 4
Re: Tunning and HIGH lambda readings
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2007, 09:11:53 pm »
Thanks cliff,

I can have play later.

rob has sent through the 'thigy whot sit' to go in the injector flyback lead. so a bit of playing tomorow so need to do a few lambda check  runs arround the block to get the fueling ok again.

then over to my mates who has a MOT gas analiser just to have a looksie on HC ( and check on lambda readings because I can ) on each bank and do a compresion test on no 8 as gut feeling its not 100% ( hope I am wrong ) . taking it easy and checking logs as I go.

2% kpa could be right'ish I have no bypass valve fitted
just the throtle valve so a v8 under  engine breaking has to pull that air through the small gap left for tickover of 1000 rpm ish So adding the momentum of 750 k I assume it could get that low ( trust me under stock ecu it would lock the rears on down shifts Thats caused me a few underpant changes ) 

RE oil - all the engine breathers  vented to a catch tank and then atmosphere. Mainly to stop knock though my compresion is lowish - plenum and intake get hot ( heat soak ) due to the inake nature of the V8  cant do a lot on the last bits but I can remove the oil vapour.
Intake does pull external air

will keep you informed and thanks for your tunning guides - good read.
 
regards

Agriv8
'The older I get the faster I was'

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3115
  • BHP: 49
    • VEMS Forum
Re: Tunning and HIGH lambda readings
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2007, 10:57:02 pm »
Make sure that you check the UserGuide for the injector settings.

Offline Agriv8

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
  • BHP: 4
Re: Tunning and HIGH lambda readings
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2007, 11:52:04 am »
thanks rob modified the settings as your guide and fitted the diode.

done a few  runs arround the block and got Lamba to somthing like.

here a log if i could have your thoughts.

http://www.box.net/shared/itt8c81btx

I am off to see if I can sus why I suddenly getting a trigger error ( but I did notice that voltage dropped to 0 - so off to check connections. )

all the best agriv8.

'The older I get the faster I was'

Offline Agriv8

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
  • BHP: 4
Re: Tunning and HIGH lambda readings
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2007, 12:34:01 pm »
trigger error sorted ( I think ) the trigger feed was laid across the top of a coil pach ( sorted with a couple of cable ties hopefully ).

regards

Agriv8
'The older I get the faster I was'

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3115
  • BHP: 49
    • VEMS Forum
Re: Tunning and HIGH lambda readings
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2007, 03:06:03 pm »
I can see the error there, at 2842.280s into the log.

Lets start from the top... What are you trying to do its an idea to quantify your goals.

Rob