RB25 Check Trigger settings

[Derpie Derps]

Hi Guys, currently helping my mate put an RB25 into an E36. The RB25 engine and ECU originally came from another guy who attempted the swap but gave up. The Wiring loom was in a state when we got it (cut and bound back together) and after looking at the settings of the ECU, it has also been messed around with a lot.

After doing a load of research I believed I've calculated the Primary and secondary teeth correctly. But would be awesome if someone could confirm.

Setup -
FW = 1.2.11
Cam holes count = 1
Crank holes count = 24
(Cam and Crank are on the same disk, see image below)


Config - http://three1one.org/matt/config.txt (replace ".txt" with ".vmscfg" if you want to load it in vemstune.exe)
TriggerLog - http://three1one.org/matt/triggerlog.txt (replace ".txt" with ".triggerlog" if you want to load it in vemstune.exe)
(Hosting the files on my server incase anyone wants to use them at a later date. I've found alot of vems URL are not working when searching google)



The reason I ask this, is even though we know the sparks and injectors are working on crank over, we still get no sign of anything going bang. Note that I had to offset the Reference Tooth Table so show

0-16
5-20
4-0
3-4
2-8
1-12

instead of

0-0
5-4
4-8
3-12
2-16
1-20

Would we also need to offset the injector table, even know we know testing injector 6 (on the software) actually does trigger injector 6.

[VEMS]

Hello Derpie,

I have provided some hints on your wiki page: http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FDerpieDerpsRB, take care offsetting the reference tooth table is not recommended; It is instead recommended to rotate the ignition output table in VT->Ignition Outputs Visual.

Second to the recommendations made in Wiki i therefore recommend:

* change reftooth table back to: 0-0, 5-4, 4-8, 3-12, 2-16, 1-20
* rotate ignition output table (shift down twice)
* make adjustments recommended in wiki (triggertooth = 2, tdc_delay = 60)
* verify engine timing with strobe light at engine cranking (INJ fuse removed), easy to lock timing to timing mark degrees by adjusting cranking advance.
* adjust tdc_delay (small offset), triggertooth (big offset > 30 degree) or rotate ignition outputs (huge offset > 120 crank degrees).
* after timing is spot on adjust cylinder firing order rotation (using the top rotate "<", ">" buttons) to have the cylinder connected to output going to cyl#1 coil next to cyl#1, do not rotate outputs itself
* in VT-> Injector outputs visual, match injector outputs pins to the wires/ec36 pins actual leading to the injector of the cylinder number in front of "InjGroup X"
* put back the INJ fuse
* start the car

Best regards, Dave

[Derpie Derps]

Thanks, sorry haven't got back to you sooner, been away trying to find a Timing gun recently but with partially no success. (Timing gun doesn't appear to work, even though its new).

We have applied your settings above but still no success. As a replacement for the timing gun we used a spare spark plug and watched it spark each time it hit TDC so we know its sparking 95% at TDC for cylinder 1.

We thought another thing to check would be to make sure that the injectors are firing correctly? Do these settings appear correct.
From top to bottom it goes cyl 1, 5, 3, 6, 2, 4. For both injector and ignition table.

Are there any other injector settings we should check that may stop the engine from running?

Also another question, the engine  needs to rotate almost twice before we get spark events on the triggerlog. Is this normal? Or is there any method of getting it to start closer to the first Secondary Trigger.

[VEMS]

Hello Derpie,

Your triggerlog has some race condition between the primary and secondary trigger, i would recommend inverting the secondary trigger edge to get the pulse a bit more centered between both primary pulses.

The RB25 engine has coil on plugs, to use a timing light make sure you have a non-adjustable type, not the fancy-magic (usually broken type) which allows some timing setup on the timing light itself,
what i usually do is unscrew the cyl#1 coil and place a small ignition lead (made from an old ignition cable with the end (distributor side) copped off and some wire exposed) in the cop coil and the other end on the sparkplug, now your timing light (dumb type) should spark if you test the cyl#1 coil in the ignition outputs visual. Test this first, if it does not spark remove the sparkplug so you can see the end and test again (visually) to see if you see spark there.  There might be three outcomes:

a) no blink on timing light and no spark on spark plug, check you coil wiring / fuses
b) no blink on timing light, but spark on spark plug, check your timing light or borrow a known good one
c) blink on timing light and spark on spark plug, prefect! lets setup the timing now for this you can follow my notes from previous post.

Remember for proper timing setup is is imperative that firing order is filled correctly

Best regards, Dave

[Derpie Derps]

Thanks Dave, changed trigger edge for secondary to rising instead and the error has disappeared.

We managed to get a working timing gun today, the ignition is timed up correctly and flashes dead on TDC now for cylinder 1. We also checked when the injector fires for cylinder one and its also dead on TDC, why would this be?

In an attempt to resolve this, we rotated the outputs on the injector tables until the injector fired on the correct stroke. Logically looking at the application it no longer makes sense to me though.

Could someone explain how the injector & ignition outputs should be set up?

Should they be set up
Cyl 1
Cyl 2
Cyl 3
Cyl 4
Cyl 5
Cyl 6

Or should they be set up in the firing order..
Cyl 1
Cyl 5
Cyl 3
Cyl 6
Cyl 2
Cyl 4

[VEMS]

Hello Deprie,

The outputs should be set up so the number in front of them (cylinder number) matches the output after that for that coil, example using your screen shot as reference:

cyl#1 -> connects to coil wired at ec36 pin#35, which should fire your cyl#1 coil when testing outputs.
cyl#5 -> connects to coil wired at ec36 pin#36, which should fire your cyl#5 coil when testing outputs.

and so on ..

If you have verified this and your have also verified ignition timing for cyl#1 and perhaps some other coils as as well to make sure (different timing marks needed, which need to be made); The most likely cause of the engine not starting is 360 degree offset in firing order, meaning you are firing at exhaust stroke instead of compression, in this case shift your outputs 3 times up and try again.

Best regards, Dave

[DButters]

I guess this guy has sorted his issue by now, but I know that when I set these engines up last it was hard to find information.
So I thought it would be valuable to note: I have successfully run two RB25 vehicles form the standard (360 tooth) CAS on VEMS. If anyone needs a config file to get them started, just PM me.

[VEMS]

Indeed we support all stock Nissan trigger arrangements, no need for special trigger discs at all. I have added configlets to jump start most types (see primary trigger settings -> defaults dropdown); If there are any uncertainties, feel free to ask.

Best regards, Dave