Boost control with round?

[ranz]

New round firmware 2010-03-29 has a boost control feature, but I can not finde any manual how to use it. Can someone explain how to start testing it?
First window:



Boost target: 1) lambda target, 2) boost target (analog), 3) rpm target (idle), 4) disable

Here I choose with what I want to set the boost?

Boost KP - what value?
Boost KI - what value?
Boost KD - what value?

From S2forum I found these values what to use P - 255, I - 20, D - 5?

Boost PID integral limit - what value?

Second window:



What to use here? what does mean 1st RPM bin?

Third window:



Again, what does mean the 1st RPM?

Fourth window:



What values?

Fifth window:



Values?

And last:



Here I quess the values are lambda targets I want to get... but again, what does mean the 1st RMP and so on?

Last three, am I right that I use only that one whitch one I set at first window?

[rob@vems.co.uk]

So I am guessing...
Boost Target sets which of the screens the controller is going to use.
The Boost RPM bins is probably the rpm breakpoints e.g. 1000, 1500, 3000 ... rpm
Then depending on your Boost Target setting in the first window - the controller will attempt to resolve the value in the target window with the boost reading.

How you set up the PID depends on the turbo, the solenoid, the way that it's plumbed in...

I notice that there are no specific methods of setting up the boost sensor or the solenoid duty cycle.

Personally I'd like to see a maximum boost value over which the solenoid is forced open allowing the waste gate to fully open and cut the boost to a minimum.

Did you have a look in the readme file with the firmware?
It might also be worth looking at the VEMSTune version of all of this, there may be more work in the screens and help sections.

[ranz]

The Boost RPM bins is probably the rpm breakpoints e.g. 1000, 1500, 3000 ... rpm

So i choose to what number is what RPM? 1st 1000, 2nd 1500, 3rd 2000, or 1st 1500, 2nd 2000, 3rd 3000...

How you set up the PID depends on the turbo, the solenoid, the way that it's plumbed in...

I have all morning and also yesterday evning reading about the PID settings, still I don´t reaaly understand it I think I´ll just have to test and learn then.

I notice that there are no specific methods of setting up the boost sensor or the solenoid duty cycle.

Wonder what the boost refDC field means?

Personally I'd like to see a maximum boost value over which the solenoid is forced open allowing the waste gate to fully open and cut the boost to a minimum.

That would be a good feature.

Did you have a look in the readme file with the firmware?
It might also be worth looking at the VEMSTune version of all of this, there may be more work in the screens and help sections.

I have read all the readmes what came with it, there is not a one word about setting up boost.
Latest vemstune version is older than the round firmware. Also there is that problem, that with vemstune the gauge or ecu has to be connected to see all the menues, without them there is many things to do.

[GintsK]

Put rpms where your turbo gives pressure. e.g. 3000.....6500
Reference duty cycle determine boost solenoid base position. You have first to find out these values starting from low.
Start with P, I and D =0 - then solenoid will be actuated with position from dyty table.

PID closed loop control purpose is correct duty cycle from DC table to get desired boost from target table.

I suppose P values shouldn't be so high as on old VEMS firmwares where reference position was far from desired. In any case start with low values also here.
New firmwares VEMS V3 use similar system, but with many correction capabilities from egt, MAT, throttle, speed, gear...
I did not tried it jet

Lambda and idle target is not used in this case.

Gints

[rob@vems.co.uk]

Here's a PID tuning guide.
http://www.expertune.com/tutor.html

[ranz]

Here's a PID tuning guide.
http://www.expertune.com/tutor.html

Thanks,

I`ll start testing it when I get my gauge back from vems (it died when I tried to upload new firmware via usb-serial adapter )

[GintsK]

You can play with PID using this exel
http://www.engineers-excel.com/Tools/PID_Simulator/Description.htm

[gunni]

To further on this boost control feature.

how about a 0-5v analog source that can then alter the boost target?

That would make this boost controller / wideband an extremely strong solution

[rob@vems.co.uk]

I was speaking to Jorgen about this last night, and found a facts out.

• Old hardware will not necessarily work well with the new boost controller as theres a pull-up resistor that raises the analog input voltage to about 3.8v - it was apparently only ever designed as a switch channel (as shares the same line as the button on the front).
• More modern hardware will work better as they have a lower pull-up voltage on that input pin.
• Theres a new version out in a few weeks that will have the capability of measuring 0-5v, it also has an aditional analog input (which would be nice if we could have a Boost adjustment valve.
• MegaTune is still the prefered setup tool
• The optimum boost setup is the refDC at RPM - this will allow you to specifically set the boost up at a specific engine speed.  Then the PID is used... (How I'm not sure I'd start with it all set to zero)

So what to do?  First up a spot of of calibration is needed, we can get the Analog input curve sorted out with a +5v power supply, potentiometer, a DVM and the equation from page 5 of the 400kpa (3bar) sensor:
http://www.freescale.com/files/sensors/doc/data_sheet/MPXH6400A.pdf
Which will provide us with some raw data to calibrate the boost with.

[gunni]

I got this from Marcell

that "anytrim boosttarget" sounds useful
Unfortunately the old round HW   has 1 analog input (which is used for
MAP/boost pressure input for boostcontrol).

On the new round, we have
* +6 red/green/yellow LEDs
* 3 additional outputs and
* 3 additional inputs (1 analog and 2 digital )

so this anytrim becomes possible with that (and actually planned).
The new round HW is under PCB manufacturing. It is planned to hit the shelves later 2010 (for +5 EUR as long as there are old rounds in stock)
>
> I think this could be a great selling point for the round as people
> just love in-car boost control knobs and such.
>
very true

thanx for the feedback,
     Marcell

So this should make the Round a very powerfull device.
I mean wideband, EGT and boost control for less then 300-ish pounds with solenoids and sensors .
That´s a bargain if I ever heard one.

[rob@vems.co.uk]

While the hardware will be in place soon enough, I think we need to temper the expectation with the fact that software lags behind the hardware but quite some degree.
Was that a Wiki post or an email that you quoted there?

[gunni]

Email

[rob@vems.co.uk]

Awesome, emails are seldom responded to - you should perhaps print it out, frame it and sell it on ebay as a genuine rarity.