Hi Guys,
just had the engine over hauled,
tried starting the car and it ran shite and i mean shite,
plugged the laptop in and it seemed to have half the settings can't remember which values were set back to 0 now,
but uploaded current map from ecu and it fired and ran,
went for a drive and it went like a rocket,
went to start it this morning and it keeps stalling once you get it to idle it seems to be running on around 6 cylinders until you rev it,
at idle you can pull all the drivers side injector plugs off and the idle smooths out a bit and the rpm picks up a fraction
you can pull the plug leads off the same side and it makes no difference either when injectors are connected.
has some thing gone screwy with the ecu???
the battery was discconected for over 3 weeks.
HELP.... was going to a car show monday but now have had to put it off.
have uploaded firmware version 1.0.53 to the ecu as was running version 1.0.36
and has made no difference,
looks like we are going to go through every thing tomorrow to try and find out whats gone wrong.
Hi Tony,
First chance I've had to see the forum this weekend, sorry to head about this problem.
Can you send me the MSQ (File->Save As...) from MegaTune please?
Rob
file sent mate.
it ran ok for a few seconds after installing the latest firm ware, but then wnet back to shite idle and near stalling again
the green and red lights at base of MT go mental up and down like mad.
also my kpa is at around 85-90 at idle, that aint right either is it?
what should it read when engine not running?
Sounds like your config has got totally wrecked!
Or else something inside the VEMS has died and is consuming lots of current and causing a volts drop that messes up all the sensor readings.
I hope it's just the config!
kpa should be 20 to 30 at idle IIRC.
me too mate as will not be happy if the ecu has got screwed up,
that high lift cam would not cause high kpa would it?
but saying that it ran well sweet saturday, as done 30 miles driving it with no probs.
until this morning when it refused to play ball,
The high lift cam will cause a rise in idle kpa, but shouldn't be that much. The TVR standard cam is pretty wild, and that was OK. (Not as wild as our new cams though!)
When I had a problem with my 1st VEMS, the temperature readings, TPS and lambda all read very wrong. This was what gave me the clue.
Also, I met up with Rob last year to try a new config & firmware, and we "lost" several sensors during the firmware update so had to revert.
i hope its something silly,
as the car went like a ferkin rocket saturday night.
my mates coming over with his scope today,
we are going through the whole system to see if every thing is tickity boo and going to test for air leaks too.
will try and do a datalog for you rob also.
Email sent to you Tony.
WE may of found the problem
the vac advance unit on the dizzy is split big time, we undone the bolts and moved the plate by hand and we got her to near idle as per the weekend,
so going to order a new one before we change any thing else regarding the ecu
Thanks for every ones input so far.
right,
this is getting me down big time now,
the new parts arrived today for the dizzy after a two week wait due to customs it has made naff all difference to the running of the engine,
which points back to a possible ecu fault.
it runs well rich as in 8 red lights :( and no matter what you change in the ve table it stays the same,
any one any ideas? or what to check before i bore wash and f@@k up my engine.
could the map sensor be iffy? im just stabbing in the dark now
Tony have you checked the fuel presure ? regulator stuck ?
regards
agriv8
yeah checked all of that mate. :(
You've tried changing the main reqfuel value too yeah?
Other than that could the injector earth (or earths) be shorting to ground somewhere - i.e. 100% duty cycle occurring
Anything in the VEMs driver setup that could cause this (Rob?)
???
ok Air leaks ?
are all you readouts clean ( as expected ) what do your logs show ? not and expert but a different set of eyes ect.
what have you added to vems since ( extra inputs ect ) since it was last running ?
checked your pins in the econoseal have you knocked one back ?
I'll keep the ideas flowing and hope that I am not insulting your inteligence but somtimes its the bleeding obvious that you miss ( my best to date when running under hotwire was AF the wrong way round :o :o took nearly 2 weeks and I was ready to put a match to it )
regards
Agriv8
the car was running prior to engine mods,
the battery and ecu was disconected for about 3 weeks,
whne every thing was fitted back up and we tried to start the car parts of the original map in the ecu was gone, values had reset to 0 but not all of them,
reason we found this out was car was running real sick and hardly idling, loaded the .msq file back up from laptop and it ran sweet,
did 30-40 miles the same day with out a hiccup,
following day this started.......
have changed plugs,
changed map settings added latest firmware, sealed plenum 6 times but still naff all,
the car revs up real crisp, but no idle now, and is lumpy as hell and near stalls,
im near wits end with it now....
MMMMmmmmm.
Tony just had a look at pictures on the web site.
good spark ? was the dizzi in use before upgrade ? i have head about problems with the condensers ? whats doing the actual switching of the coil.
loosing parts of the map thats a worry from a computer procesor point of view ( memory ) could it have also lost bits that megatune cant get to ? I think we need to get a log realy.
going of to work way to do that shortly.
regards
Agriv8
getting a log would be ok if it didnt take ages to get it to at least run for a few seconds,
the dizzy is a mallory unilite electronic, and has been in the car since day one,
the coil is a mallory promaster which is fed by a mal685 unistrike cd ignition unit.
like i said all ran fine after the mods for one day
then the following day this
could something of died? or be dying in the ecu?
my sponsors are getting edgy now and are asking questions as i have missed 2 race meeting so far and no hope of getting to this weekends one either
Simple procesors ( like the vems ) are little computers
Info in ----> process ----> info out.
or as used in computing world
CICO = Crap In Crap Out
email me the config file you are using and ill take a look with a fesh set of eyes ill u2u my email addr .
regards
agriv8
I've never heard of the maps getting wiped like that - but if the map got wiped then theres every likelyhood that the configuration would get mullered.
I dont understand how so much of this is moving about though - the split diaphram on the Mallory explained the MAP readings going to pot the way they did.
Last we spoke you'd upgraded to one of the newer firmware versions, can you tell me what version you're running at the moment?
Rob
its the one i mailed you rob, 1.0.69
the diaphram never made a dent in the fault mate when we replaced it tonight,
it was the same as before we replaced it,
its got me beaten i dont mind admiting it, ???
the annoying part is im Ã,£400 lighter due to the work over easter and its a non runner :'( :'(
we are going to try and run it on open loop tomorrow afternoon to see if the wdeband has a fault,
i hope we can resolve this problem as i dont really want to go back to a 4bbrl carb :-[
Re-reading this...
And re-reading it again...
And checking the MSQ you sent to me on 8th April
Settings->Primary Trigger Settings
I have number of teeth on wheel = 35 which would give you some very funny rpm readings IIRC there should be 8 trigger teeth.
The Closed loop settings can only increase the fuel by 19% or 5%
If I open that MSQ in Megatune from 1.0.69 it gives 25 warnings.
There can be problems if the firmware was upgraded using the msq's only.
Without datalogs theres no way I can see whats happening, and datalogging the startup is as important as anything else TBH.
Plan of action:
Set the teeth on wheel to 8 which should be correct.
Turn off closed loop closed loop wont be working before the lambda is upto temperature.
If all fails send me the ECU and I can test it on my test bench.
will the trigger teeth effect it when im only doing fuel with the vems at mo mate?
the .msq we got here has 2 warnings which we can't seem to get rid of,
we changed the settings in MT to correct the 25 warnings, which made no difference to the running,
Right then I went and had a shower, nothing worse than being stressed AND dirty.
Lets approach this another way...
what we're interested in here is purely the pulsewidths of the injectors - as we know what they were when they were working well.
Looking at the datalog you sent me last year of your 13.435sec run we see that at idle you had pressures of 58kpa@843rpm and a injector PW of 3.1ms, to 48kpa@980rpm & PW of 2.6ms
In that datalog you sent where the MAP was briefly okay but rubbish for the rest of the time we saw: 41.3kpa@779rpm PW=3.1ms and 31kpa@487rpm PW2.4
The rest of the time VEMS was kicking out a PW of about 7.4ms which is way too rich.
So.
You suspect the MAP sensor or the VEMS :), I suspect anything but the VEMS (because I am biased ;D) so lets try and find some middle ground where we can do some experiments.
We can eliminate the MAP sensor by going to AlphaN, http://www.vems.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=93.0
We know that your engine likes to idle at 850 to 950 rpm with PWs of 2.6 to 3.1
So save all your current settings.
Convert to AlphaN. Set your first three RPM cells to 650, 850, 1050 and try to start the engine
watch the inejctor pulse width in the Tuning->VE Table screen and as you will be warming up you'll need to factor in the warm-up enrichment, you have 140%@15.5c and 110%@26.6 so if the weather is warmish tomorrow you should be looking for initial tick over PWs of 3.64 to 4.34 at around 15deg, dropping to 2.9 to 3.4 as it warms up.
This will effectively tell us that the VEMS is working correctly and injecting the fuel as it should. From that we can decide the next course of action.
just got hom,e from work,
after i have collected the kids from school i will go testing,
cheers guys :D
fingers crossed from Yorkshire ..
regards
Agriv8
well she still not liking things.
we had her running and got a datalog donish, see below: (recent .msq is in the zip file too)
http://www.v-8.org.uk/ecu/27-04-07.zip
but we pulled the drivers side injector leads off while running and rvs picked up a bit and the idle was real smooth at the increased revs with only 4 injectors ??? ??? ??? ???
Tony,
New to this so not an expert ( there will be one along shortly ) Map sensor at 0 ??? ? then it spikes at 351seconds so its reading somthig but Strange.
mine reads 100 ( not running ) and drops to 30 / 40 at tickover.
might be your setup
Regards
Agriv8
If the ECU was in alphaN mode then this shouldn't have been an issue.
I don't remember if the ECU still reads & reports MAP if it's in alphaN mode - Rob do you know?
pass,
this is all new to me :(
In AlphaN mode TPS translates to MAP 0% = 0kpa, 100%=255kpa.
Just looking at the datalog, and I'd love a second pair of eyes to look over it...
Aside from the fact the signals look a little noisy (not enough to worry about) everything looks fine.
The RPM waves around between 841 and 1213 but that seems to be in line with what the IACV is controlling and not unsual on a car thats just been switched over to a brand new map.
The lambda looks fine: 0.98 to 1.03.
Pulsewidths seem to look in line with what I suggested yesterday night.
but she dont idle healthy :(
not like it did the day before this hiccup
also why would the car run smooth after the drivers side injector wires are removed ???
Quote from: rob@vems.co.uk on April 27, 2007, 05:41:16 PM
In AlphaN mode TPS translates to MAP 0% = 0kpa, 100%=255kpa.
Just looking at the datalog, and I'd love a second pair of eyes to look over it...
Aside from the fact the signals look a little noisy (not enough to worry about) everything looks fine.
The RPM waves around between 841 and 1213 but that seems to be in line with what the IACV is controlling and not unsual on a car thats just been switched over to a brand new map.
The lambda looks fine: 0.98 to 1.03.
Pulsewidths seem to look in line with what I suggested yesterday night.
I'd agree for most of it it looks fine, but then.....
from about 4300 secs on it starts running lean. PW drops from 3 to 2.6, MAT has increased 14 to 15. Still no throttle applied. Idle starts to oscillate. A small throttle bip brings it back in check for a little while until it goes again. this time pW drops from 2.7 to 2.2. Looking at the lambda trace its possibly misfiring on the same cylinder every time.
Check the following
Let it run until it starts misbehaving at idle. Then try and hold it up on the throttle at say 2500rpm - What happens.
Then try with a bit of load (hold it on the brakes in drive and increase the revs a bit) - What happens?
Then try letting it idle while its rough and pull the plug leads one by one - What happens.
The first 2 tests are to try and increase the injector pulsewidth to see if you are not opening the injecor properly at low PW's. The thrid test is to see if its a plug or lead problem.
Incidentally pulling all the injectors off one bank should allow it to idle as nice as a 4 cylinder engine. However, since you thought it was better than with all of them connected, it could be a clue that the problem is on the bank you disconnected. Try the other side too and see the effect.
problem with the other bank is they are under the plenum inlet mate and i can't get to them
I had that drop down as warm-up enrichment turning off.
Does it run as badly on AlphaN as it did on speed density? If so can you switch back to speed density so that we can get an idea of the vaccum that the Manifold is drawing?
Cheers
Rob
i'll try tomorrow mate,
as neighbours and mrs moaning about the car having to be revved to keep running, every night is a bit understandable.
it runs a bit better still misses but hunts up and down a bit,
if you pick the revs up a bit it seems to run a bit smoother,
i may send the ecu back for you to give a once over any way mate just incase something is not 100% somewhere.
Oh i got two weeks to get her running 100% :(
Quote from: Tony C on April 27, 2007, 07:09:45 PM
problem with the other bank is they are under the plenum inlet mate and i can't get to them
You can turn off each injector with MegaTune, by changing the injector patterns...
Settings->Injector Outputs
0 has a value of 105 which is the binary pattern 01101001 which is driving injector lines 1, 4, 6, 7
01101000 = 104 (turns off line 1)
01100001 = 97 (turns off line 4)
01001001 = 73 (turns off line 6)
00101001 = 41 (turns off line 7)
1 has a value of 150 which is the binary pattern 10010110 which is driving injector lines 2, 3, 5, 8
10010100 = 148 (turns off line 2)
10010010 = 146 (turns off line 3)
10000110 = 134 (turns off line 5)
00010110 = 22 (turns off line 8)
Quote from: Tony C on April 27, 2007, 07:09:45 PM
problem with the other bank is they are under the plenum inlet mate and i can't get to them
What about at the dizzy?
can some one do me a favour?
that .msq file of mine can some one change the settings back to speed density or what every you want me to do a datalog of,
the guy that was helping me and doing the ecu settings i think has had enough and lost interest now (don't blame him as he was getting quite stressed with it today), and i aint a clue what he changed as i was tring to keep the car running while he changed the settings :(
i'm even contimplating going back to the old hotwire efi as i know that worked spot on up to removal.
I've had another thought
The reason this all came about is because you re-built the engine right? With a somewhat more wild cam in it?
Have you actually tried changing anything in the calibration to cope with this? The missing at idle could just be due to the increased overlap, and you may need to run richer, and/or a higher idle to compensate, and maybe even advance the idle ignition (rotate the dizzy a bit.
I've not seen the map trace, but again if you're getting a lot of reversion/pulsations the MAP sensor won't like it. This is precisely why alpha-n was developed.
We are all assuming there is some problem here, but it could just be your 'improved cam'
Just a thought.
Since it does just about idle it might be worth trying to take it for a drive, though I guess you will need to re-map the fuel for alpha-n as you go, or let it run closed loop.
Also, try putting the target lambda to no leaner than 0.95 for now, as this will give you a bit of headroom on the lambda front.
What do you think?
the car has been running sweet with this cam mate,
i have covered 40 miles trouble free like i said in a previous post,
but the following day this started to happen,
why would the car run sweet one day after rebuilt then not the next??????
this is whats got me thinking,
Tony - would an extra pair of hands on site help? If you can find a way to get me to Newbury or you & the car to Southampton I'm happy to spend Sunday tinkering with a different v8. I'll bring up my spare VEMS etc. (I doubt I'll get a car on a sensible ferry at a sensible price at this short notice, so I'll have to be a foot passenger)
thanks for the offer Dave, BUT this sunday is a no go im afraid,
i spent all easter on the car and the mrs hit the roof,
I have had strict orders not to even talk about the car let alone work on it on my daughters birthday on sunday :(
I know exactly what you mean... The offer's still open for some other time.
Hi,
It's sad to see the trouble you have with the engine. I have found that the launch and ALS settings are not disabled properly. Without the switch and pullup installed these can flicker on and off which will make the engine sound pretty sick.
If you look at extras-> Advanced ALS you see "Input channel used:", this should be set to DISABLED.
Then check Extras-> Launch control. Make sure that "Input channel used:" is set to DISABLED.
As you have trouble with the engine I suggest that you disable the closed loop control until the engine runs well again. It can make matters worse.
I heard that there was very high intake pressure at some time. I would need a log of the engine with the MAP sensor connected and used, the MAP must always have it's own connection to the plenum. It's our primary load sensor and we don't want bad load readings if an other component breaks.
You mentioned an engine overhaul, was there headwork involved? New lifters? Pushrods? Rockers?
Do you have a boost or vacuum gauge that you can read while the engine is idling?
Jörgen Karlsson
Gothenburg, Sweden
Hi Jorgen,
yup new cam (crower 50233) crane hi rev lifters and stg3 heads,
what no one has been able to expalin is why the car ran sweet for 40 miles on the day of fire up.
then do this the day after, surley if the engine mods are the fault would it not of played up from day one of start up????
:(
i will see if i can get a vacuum or boost gauge
Just switch it back from AlphaN to Speed Density (change Extras->Alpha-N / Speed-Density Blending min and max RPM back to Zero)
And crank the engine over (your VE Table will be wrong now so you may not get it to start might be an idea to upload your old VE Table).
That will give you a manifold pressure reading datalog the same as a guage will give you.
There are so many potential factors as to why the car ran well then went to pot that we're just trying to establish what they could all be, and once we've got them all lined up we can pick them off one at a time.
Rob
cheers rob
will upload a datalog of us playing and one of the car on its own, have had to hold her on the throttle a bit to idle and also no matter how much we set the idle control valve it never idled above 1100 even with the valve wide open,
we did notice the temp scale was reading 102 in MT when the gauge on the car was only at half way,
try this guys,
http://www.v-8.org.uk/ecu/28-04-07.zip
im going to drop the mallory ignition amp out in the week to eliminate that from the equasion, as i have just rebuilt the dizzy today with new electronic eye and rotor arm so i know thats all good,
Quote from: Tony C on April 28, 2007, 12:21:33 PM
we did notice the temp scale was reading 102 in MT when the gauge on the car was only at half way,
This is a little worrying. Mine did this every so often, and I put it down to a dodgy sensor earth since there was no way it could be the real temperature.
at least its not just me then, what would cause this mate??? as is a little worring as would the ecu not try and change the fuelling for the high temp????
On another note may be making a bit of progress,
had the car running on the o/e map etc had to open the idle valve a bit more but had it idling,
it looks like my passenger may of damaged the wiring loom, as if you wriggle the ignition trigger wire the revs pick up and down
so off back round to run another wire (not a shielded one though as not got any) just to see if this cures it,
will report back soon,
Damn, thats as noisey as hell.
Lets think about grounds.
I'm wondering about finding a way of disconnecting everything and just looking at the ground noise...
I have visitors now so I have to tend to them.
Rob
well that didnt work :(
only way i can get her to sort of idle is to disconect the stepper,
and wind it out of its housing as if it is an idle screw,
then i can get her to idle, not very smooth but it idles,
have had enough now the ecu is out of the car and sat on the kitchen table,
im looking at refitting the old ecu now as not got no more time or patience now to sit round garage every day trying to get the car to run,
Rob if you want the ecu sent back to run on the test bed just shout mate,
also it seems if you load a map on the ecu get car running to a fashion,
turn ignition off come back later it wont run you have to start setting it up again.
the values you store seem to be there still but you have to change the VE etc to other settings along with stepper settings to try and get it to idle,
if you wind the dizzy round to 28 degrees it will run ish on its own, but thats not a wise thing on an engine that was fine at 10 degrees :(
Yeah send it back and I'll run it up on the test bed to see if I can replicate the same problem with it loosing settings.
Interesting that the idle picks up at 28degrees ignition advance though!?!
All very strange.
Rob
I worry a bit about the grounding, even if the MAP sensor is internal it can be affected by very bad ground. The internal MAP is very rugged and it's unlikely that it can fail. With a separate hose to the plenum and a test with a vacuum gauge we should be able to eliminate the MAP sensor from the equation.
I have seen MAP traces like that a few times before and I'm sorry to say that in 4 out of five cases it has been related to the valve train. In the fifth case it was a leaking intake gasket on a manifold with very long runners. ECU's like ours that use the MAP as the primary load sensor will be sensitive to problems that give an unpredictable vacuum.
You say that you let it idle at 10 degrees, I usuallly do that as well when the engine let me get away with it. But some more idle timing give a much better idle if you have a lumpy cam.
Jörgen
hi Jorgen,
i have spoken to a few guys i race with and they are asking why have i got to give it so much at idle timing wise,
one uses an aftermarket ecu and has an even wilder cam than me and he aint got to run his that high, strange eh, i wish i never upgraded the engine now.
im going to try my old set up, (started redoing the loom tonight)
just to ease my mind, if it runs ok then then im convinced its a ecu/loom/sensor problem.
if it fails to run and gives the same faults then i will agree its to do with the engine/valvetrain
the ecu is boxed up already Rob,
will be coming first class recorded, while you got it how much to change that blown transistor bit on the fuel pump channel?
do you want the loom also so you got what i have here you may find something wrong with the loom that i have missed?
Quote from: Tony C on April 28, 2007, 03:04:34 PM
at least its not just me then, what would cause this mate??? as is a little worring as would the ecu not try and change the fuelling for the high temp????
I put it down to the TVR grounding being really nasty. I had sorted most of it, but there were some bits that were less than ideal!
well in between the party and me hiding i managed to get the ecu loom removed and the loom and ecu both boxed up to send to rob for a testing session, (cheers mate)
I hope that you find the problem, the lack of a vacuum signal indicates that you'll find it in the valvetrain. As the ECU only controls the fuel on your car it's hard for it to change the vacuum signal at all and even if you used it for ignition it would be hard to get it to change the vacuum this much.
Good luck,
Jörgen
Tony, I saw your thread on http://www.v-8.org.uk. I saw some notes about throttle shafts and the intake looks much like a ITB intake. Was individual throttle bodies part of the last upgrade package?
Jörgen
Tony only installed new throttle shafts to his twin plenum setup. I know as I had them made for him.
Quote from: r2d2hp on May 02, 2007, 05:20:39 PM
Tony only installed new throttle shafts to his twin plenum setup. I know as I had them made for him.
not installed the newshafts yet mate as was waiting for the new bolts to lock the plates in with,
no jorgen i wish it was throttle boddies mate,
its a twin plenum set up, two throttle plates that feed into the plenum chamber with 8 ram pipes inside.
Okay, so I've got the VEMS and harness from Tony today.
All 8 injectors are functioning correctly.
Anti-lag was on.
I've downloaded and checked over the configs, upgraded them flashed the unit with firmware 1.0.73
and ran a sweeping test from 600-6000-600-6000 rpm pulling a pressure on the MAP sensor.
The datalog is here:
http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMSInstalls/TonyCooper/BenchTestAfterUpgraded.xls
I set the MAP kpa reading to 101.5 as it was the closest I could get to the measured pressure of 101.7
The atmospheric pressure has gone up here, its currently reading 102 on Tony's ECU and 102 on my test unit.
All injectors fire correctly.
I've recalibrated the wideband:
nerst target is now 136 (was 141)
pump zero remains at 100
All in all everything looks fine with the VEMS
I'll keep checking and downloading the config so I can compare them back to back to ensure that the settings are not getting corrupted.
keep an eye on the anti lag mate,
as we turned that off 3 times :(
will i need to upgrade the laptop software now as the ecu is now on 1.0.73 mate?
did you test the ecu and loom together?? just in case there was a fault in the loom,
and did you find that popped transistor?
thanks again for your help on testing the ecu for me mate,
looks like i need to spend some money on some gaskets and strip the engine down again :(
Quote from: Tony C on May 02, 2007, 11:42:50 PM
keep an eye on the anti lag mate,
as we turned that off 3 times :(
will i need to upgrade the laptop software now as the ecu is now on 1.0.73 mate?
did you test the ecu and loom together?? just in case there was a fault in the loom,
and did you find that popped transistor?
thanks again for your help on testing the ecu for me mate,
looks like i need to spend some money on some gaskets and strip the engine down again :(
Because of significant changes in the configuration of anti-lag turning it off through MegaTune doesnt work when you've upgraded from pre 1.0.3x
When I return the VEMS to will recieve what all new purchasers get:
A CD with the Software release and the configs&tables that the unit was shipped with.
A calibration sheet detailing the settings and tests made on your system.
The fuel pump driver is a complete chip: the p259, and I didnt get a chance to test it last night, but I did'nt see that the earths on the harness were not joined:
(http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMSUserManual/VEMSGrounds.png)
This would account for the p259 dieing in the event of an earthing problem. It might also explain the noisey signals that we saw, but again these wouldnt be sufficient to cause the problems you've been having.
I didnt test with the loom as I wanted to isolate the VEMS first. I'll look at the loom next.
Rob
I took a look at the preload setup you did on the lifters and it looks like it could be easy to get it wrong. Isn't it possible to start the engine and loosen it up until it starts to tick, let it run for a few seconds that way and then tighten it up until it doesn't tick any more?
To tight preload will give the behavior you see.
Jörgen
Hi Jorgen,
very doubtful i got the preload wrong,
if i have its the first time in the 14 RV8 engines i have built that i have,
the only way to check is to strip the lifters out dismantle them drain oil out of then refit and re set preload, also if the preload was wrong i would of thought the problem would of been there from strat up not 40 miles later mate, but i could be wrong,
will be doing a comp test over the weekend to see if we have anything not sealing proper, have rigged up a drill to run the oil pump to make sure evry thing is pumped up with oil as if engine was running to check clearances too.
Rob,
if i wanted to bypass the cdi unit and connect the trigger wire for the vems to the coil, so i am only using the dizzy and coil setup. do i need to change any settings in MT?
We may have a result,
on stripping down the engine today i have found that one of the adjustable pushrods on cylinder No2 the lock nut has failed and wound the pushrod open thus making the preload to much like jorgen said,
As soon as Rob sends the ecu back (is there a mail service that delivers over bank holidays :D :D) i will fit it all back up and try her again, fingers crossed this is the fault, which looks like it is our problem,
thanks to all sugestions made, and yes it looks like an engine component had failed and not the ecu, sorry if i doubted it :'( :'(
We were discussing your setup today, and Jorgen pointed out to me that going from CDI to wasted spark is a retrograde step and that you've probably got all you need with your setup to have VEMS control the ignition without the crank pulley and all that extra 'stuff'.
What are you running for your ignition?
Rob
I get worried when people start talking about me ::) ;D
my ignition consists of the following:
a mallory mal-685 cdi ignition unit:
http://www.centuryperformance.com/detail.asp?Product_ID=MAL-685
Unilite dizzy:
http://www.centuryperformance.com/detail.asp?product_id=MAL-4764301
info on the dizzy is here:
http://www.centuryperformance.com/mallory/dizzymatrix1.asp
then click on unilite
promaster coil:
http://www.centuryperformance.com/detail.asp?product_id=MAL-29440
Mallory Leads:
http://www.centuryperformance.com/mallory/plugwire.asp
do you think you will be finished with the ecu this week rob?
Its boxed and it going to the Post Office tomorrow.
cheers Rob :D
Quote from: rob@vems.co.uk on May 03, 2007, 09:26:30 AM
Because of significant changes in the configuration of anti-lag turning it off through MegaTune doesnt work when you've upgraded from pre 1.0.3x
When I return the VEMS to will recieve what all new purchasers get:
A CD with the Software release and the configs&tables that the unit was shipped with.
A calibration sheet detailing the settings and tests made on your system.
The fuel pump driver is a complete chip: the p259, and I didnt get a chance to test it last night, but I did'nt see that the earths on the harness were not joined:
(http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMSUserManual/VEMSGrounds.png)
This would account for the p259 dieing in the event of an earthing problem. It might also explain the noisey signals that we saw, but again these wouldnt be sufficient to cause the problems you've been having.
I didnt test with the loom as I wanted to isolate the VEMS first. I'll look at the loom next.
Rob
ECU came back today, cheers Rob,
was no CD etc in the box? or did you forget mate :)
also did you do that earth mod you talked about on the phone, you was going to unwrap the loom and twist a bit of wire somewhere etc and solder? if not where do i need to do the work mate?
The earth mod was done, I taped 3 of the wires together, and taped it up then rewound the plastic covering back on.
I ran out of CDs on Monday when I was packing things up and havent had a chance to get any (and that includes nicking them from work) because they want to see if they can kill me at work by making me actually do some... >:(
You can download what would have been on the CD from here:
http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMSInstalls/Unit317VemsMT1.0.73.zip
You got the calibration sheet in the envelope?
Rob
envelope?
never see any envelope mate :(
i have changed them 4 seperate crimped wires by joining them to a 6mm cable that will now go to the head instead of all the others.
just found an envelope on the frotn of the box, just thought that was an address label :)
Far be it from me to point out the words: Documents Enclosed that were on the front of the envelope :P ;)
i didnt look mate, :-[ :-[
was to eager to get the ecu out and back in the car ;D ;D
well she is 90% back together,
i took the time tonight to tidy up the existing looms while the vems ecu and its loom was out,
looking a lot tidier now :D
should be ready for a fire up late friday. failing that defo on saturday.
the car lives, :D
runs sweet,
BUT have now got an idle valve problem,:(
it does not move any more, have tried another motor but have the same problem,. you can here the motor buzz as if its trying to move but thats all.
i have had to unscrew the stepper motor out of the housing a bit to open up the air channel to get her to idle,
any ideas before i start ripping the loom apart etc,
oh robs upgraded me to the firmware 1.0.73 while he had my ecu,
right think found the idle prob, looks like something to do with one or more of the terminals in the plug(s) at the ecu end,
Rob how much to send me a set of terminals mate so i can redo the ecu plugs, i can't find the other set i had from you mate :'(, i looked on the vems shop and can't see them on there.
took the car for a road test and yup its was fun, in the rain was even more fun,
here's a vid of her
http://media.putfile.com/Second-Fire-up-of-stg3-v8
i tried something tonight,
i loaded the old map we did with firmware 1.0.69 and the car ran better,
i gather that is on the old calibration settings too Rob?
also i had idle control again.
regarding idle control (maybe one for dnb), when you start calibrating the stepper, should it go in then out or out then into the middle? when you turn the ignition on without starting.???
Idle Kpa mines around 50-55kpa is that ok to run with map control? or should i be looking at alpha n at idle?
sorry for the questions guys, but there is light at the end of the tunnel :D
If those settings work okay stick with them for the time being.
I'd run AlphaN all the time now you've got those cams
Rob
what run alpha n instead of the map sensor for idle
or from idle to full throttle mate?.
i gather i need to fill out a table somewhere with some values then, :(
Converting to alphaN is here:
http://www.vems.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=93.0
Disconnect the MAP sensor so that its not reading the vacuum in the manifold and use it for barometric compensation - or keep the MAP and use the Speed Density/AlphaN blending.
Its really a case of experimenting with the setups to see what works best for you.
well couldn't get her to idle or anything on alpha n
so had a play with the settings,
god knows what i have changed but she idles now back on map and she is running sweet and not rich at all, went for a drive and she was crisp and sharp, i have had to drop my accel enrich down as it was lighting all the red lights up in MT at WOT and it bogged a bit,
pulls a bit better now and seems to be running as per the VE table on closed loop.
what should i be aming for under accel enrich at WOT ???
still needs tweaking, but im proud of myself that i never gave up and got her running, and to take for another drive,
have a hot start prob though now, it fires revs pick up then she dies, if you catch her on the throttle briefly she will idle ok,
not sure how the cold start is going to be though as we never got this sorted, i will find out in the morning as im that confident in my mapping im taking the car to work :D :D
I struggled with idle on alphaN, but I only looked at it for a little while before I took the Griff off the road. Engine is built and back in the car now, so shouldn't be long!
WOT lambda should be approx 0.86 The aim is for it to go straight there, hence the need to throw fuel in as soon as the accelerator is touched. (The map itself will get the lambda to 0.86 eventually anyway, but instant is what is really wanted here) I don't remember my settings. but the values were quite small in the end.
As for the starting - it sounds like yours is behaving like mine did. It's a case of getting the % increase vs temperature on starting correct now. Only make small changes to it each time, and you'll soon get there. The settings to look at are the temperature compensation table and the after-start enrichment. I believe both of these are a percentage multiplier on the fuelling table, and both get applied during starting, and only the temperature one gets applied when warming up.
I have here a datalog of start up from cold, and after start from cold and afterstart when hot if anyone wants to have a look and give me some pointers,
also i defo think my stepper is not config correctly, or something has gone a miss as when i used to start from hot the revs would climb then die dow to aid idle but now they dont,
have the latest .msq here also if any one wants to see where i may be going wrong,
otherwise ran sweet to work and back, just needs hot and cold start sorting now, which maybe down to a stepper fault, (have tried two different ones with same thing.)
here we go:
http://www.v-8.org.uk/zipfiles/tonyv8new.zip
there are the 3 datalogs along with current .msq file.
Re stepper - it should move the pin out then in when you turn the key. If yours moves in then out, then the config is backwards!
ok i need to change that then, mine been like that for ages ;D
would that mean fully open would be 100? or 255??? or 0 ???
Mine was like that for ages too! I don't remember what fully open was, bu I think it was something odd like 68...
Cheers dave, will have a play later today,
any one got an easy way of setting up a stepper?
as in what values to put where for testing,
does the stepper reference table need settings along with postion while cranking at -40 and 77?
as mines doing werid things and want to make sure i have the settings correct in a few places before i go any further.
the stepper worked fine on the old firmware version :(
also:
extras-> idle settings general.
what should iac follows tps when not idle be at?, should that be enabled or disabled?
well been out for another number crunching session and now seems to be behaving its self,
also when a load is added on the engine, i could be mistaken but im sure the revs now pick up and goes back to idle then compensates again when load is removed,
im enjoying this tuning a bit more now ;)
MOT next weekend so fingers crossed i dont break her before then
will see if i got the cold start side of things working in the morning ;)
well she sort of cold starts,
but have covered 200 miles of trouble free driving this weekend,
is good to have her back on the road and mobile again :D