Engine and vehicle configuration
2270 aircooled 4 cylinder engine with long duration cam
42mm Jenvey throttle bodies
263cc/min injectors from Golf G60 0280 150 905
BMW Mini coil pack
EGT sensor
Wideband
IAT
Will run AlphaN due to ITBs with MAP as Baro
2 years ago I damaged the flywheel of my 2.1 type 4 engine so I decided to strip it down, rebuild it and fit fuel injection.
18 months ago I bought a house, so most of the work on the VW stopped, although new heads, pistons, rods and crank were purchased to go from 2056cc to 2270. The rest of the new parts arrived today so I want to get the bottom end balanced and the engine built over the coming weeks.
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/10001/normal_sparace_%28Large%29.JPG) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/10001/sparace_%28Large%29.JPG)
Bus at Spa 2006
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/10001/normal_timing_wheel_%28Large%29.jpg) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/10001/timing_wheel_%28Large%29.jpg)
Laser cut 36 tooth timing wheel designed by Japeto
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/bus2/normal_DSC00800_%28Large%29.JPG) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/bus2/DSC00800_%28Large%29.JPG)
Test fitted timing wheel
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081030/normal_dsc03334.jpg) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081030/dsc03334.jpg)
Case machined on CNC mill at work to allow fitment of sensor to bosses that tinwear mount to (originally engine was flat type, and fan housing bolted to these)
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081030/normal_dsc03335.jpg) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081030/dsc03335.jpg)
78mm Welded stroker crank with VW Type 1 journals
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081030/normal_dsc03329.jpg) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081030/dsc03329.jpg)
H beam rods
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081030/normal_dsc03332.jpg) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081030/dsc03332.jpg)
96mm keith black pistons
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081030/normal_dsc02224.jpg) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081030/dsc02224.jpg)
HAM/Type 4store 190cfm heads with relocated spark plugs
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/bus/normal_DSC00798_%28Large%29.JPG) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/bus/DSC00798_%28Large%29.JPG)
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/10001/normal_DSC00996_%28Large%29.JPG) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/10001/DSC00996_%28Large%29.JPG)
Originally the plan was to use Alfa Romeo 1.7 boxer 16v throttle bodies
However these are shaped at the bottom for the oval ports of the 16v Alfa head. They are also much more widely spaced than the type 4 head.
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081030/normal_dsc03342.jpg) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081030/dsc03342.jpg)
Instead 40mm Alfa romeo Spica throttle bodies will be used with the original Porsche 914 intake manifolds (these will need to be redrilled to match the 4 stud intake mount on the new head). The original manifolds will be cut horizontally, and a CNC cut flange will be welded to mount the throttle bodies to. The throttle bodies will need a Throttle pot added, but this shouldn't cause too many problems.
The throttle bodies have a 40mm butterfly, and are 40mm for 75% of the length bore, but are tapered to 36mm. Apparently this was because of the mechanical injection system - I will have these machined to 40mm for the whole length of the bore.
Apparently it is possible to open them up to 42mm, but you have to manufacture butterflies. For what I want the engine to do, I believe 40mm will be sufficient
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081030/normal_dsc03350.jpg) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081030/dsc03350.jpg)
Missing tooth removed from trigger wheel
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081030/normal_dsc03353.jpg) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081030/dsc03353.jpg)
Crank pulley attached to trigger wheel and hub
Nice fabrication skills there sir.
You just have to love the old 3 bearing design cranks ;D
You know you want to go coil on plug as well ;) Nothing like bringing old carbie engines into the 21st century :D
I love thos split screen VWs and this one looks in mint, unlike most with a brushed on celulose paint finish :-\
The Subaru coil pack just works like a treat - its designed for a flat four.
Or the MSD Blaster coil:
http://www.msdignition.com/product.aspx?id=5069
(http://www.msdignition.com/uploadedimages/MSDIgnitioncom/Products/Coils/8229_full.jpg)
Quote from: Sprocket on October 31, 2008, 07:14:07 PM
You know you want to go coil on plug as well ;)
Quote from: [email protected] on October 31, 2008, 08:37:09 PM
The Subaru coil pack just works like a treat - its designed for a flat four.
Or the MSD Blaster coil:
http://www.msdignition.com/product.aspx?id=5069
(http://www.msdignition.com/uploadedimages/MSDIgnitioncom/Products/Coils/8229_full.jpg)
My Bad. Im just not exposed to anything other than the A series :-[
Quote from: Sprocket on October 31, 2008, 07:14:07 PM
You just have to love the old 3 bearing design cranks ;D
You know you want to go coil on plug as well ;) Nothing like bringing old carbie engines into the 21st century :D
I love thos split screen VWs and this one looks in mint, unlike most with a brushed on celulose paint finish :-\
Its not perfect, but it looks nice to the untrained eye.
Not only is the crank 3 bearing one, it is also welded to make it into a stroker. But there are lots of them used in the states that have done 80k miles without a problem.
Quote from: [email protected] on October 31, 2008, 08:10:50 AM
Nice fabrication skills there sir.
Not mine unfortunately, my friend Japeto designed the trigger wheel and had it manufactured.
The machine work I just have to buy a drink for one of the guys in the machine shop at work!
Quote from: Sprocket on October 31, 2008, 09:11:51 PM
My Bad. Im just not exposed to anything other than the A series :-[
I'm a closet air cooled lover, admittedly I have un-natural feelings for the A-Series too though... :o
Today I built up the bottom end and dropped it off for balancing. Pity I didn't drop it off yesterday as I could have had it back on Weds, so instead it will be ready a week Weds.
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081031/normal_dsc03357.jpg) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081031/dsc03357.jpg)
First fitment of the forged flywheel with the BAS ream to fit bolts. The bolts are a tight slip fit, and I was a little concerned that the flywheel might not exactly match the crank. A couple of the bolts were a little tight, but once the flywheel had seated fully on the other three bolts those also went in.
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081031/normal_dsc03358.jpg) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081031/dsc03358.jpg)
Gears installed along with pulley/trigger wheel.
The plan was to use either one of those MSD coils or a Subaru one. The MSD one looks nice in the photos, but I wasn't impressed with the build quality of their distributors.
I have a 009 distributor that I was considering modifying to give me a CAM trigger, but I have read elsewhere on the forum that this isn't required for sequential injection only for coil on plug. Surely without a CAM trigger the injection could be one of two strokes - or is the idea that as long as it fires during the exhaust or compression stroke then the fuel will sit on the back of the valve (in a port injection system)?
I wouldnt be surprised. The good old A series cranks, standard production items, have been modified to the point they resemble a bent piece of wire, see 10k rpm and survive outputs over 300bhp. Originaly design for around 34bhp :D
One of Fast Carl's, Mr Titanium Carl Austin (www.force-racing.co.uk) works of art
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/carl1964/cfbnop.jpg)
They dont make stuff like they used to. Everything was over engineered back then, heavily :D
Quote from: [email protected] on October 31, 2008, 08:37:09 PM
The Subaru coil pack just works like a treat - its designed for a flat four.
Or the MSD Blaster coil:
http://www.msdignition.com/product.aspx?id=5069
(http://www.msdignition.com/uploadedimages/MSDIgnitioncom/Products/Coils/8229_full.jpg)
Do you know anyone that has used the blaster coil - it looks like I would need the Mopar connector.
I have a mate who is resident at Chrysler Detroit though, maybe he can get me one
Quote from: paul_f on October 31, 2008, 09:38:46 PMThe plan was to use either one of those MSD coils or a Subaru one. The MSD one looks nice in the photos, but I wasn't impressed with the build quality of their distributors.
I have a 009 distributor that I was considering modifying to give me a CAM trigger, but I have read elsewhere on the forum that this isn't required for sequential injection only for coil on plug. Surely without a CAM trigger the injection could be one of two strokes - or is the idea that as long as it fires during the exhaust or compression stroke then the fuel will sit on the back of the valve (in a port injection system)?
The MSD coils are good if only because they seem to be discounted to hell on ebay and various on-line shops. You could "Keep It Real" and use the VAG
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VOLKWAGON-VW-IGNITION-COIL-AUDI-SEAT-SKODA_W0QQitemZ4574961464QQihZ003QQcategoryZ10372QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
(http://i2.ebayimg.com/01/i/04/f1/13/05_1_b.JPG)
Spot-on with the injection sequencing as long as it fires when the valve is closed then all is good.
It seems that the mini can also use that MSD coil http://www.jscspeed.com/mini/engine/msd_8239.htm
Or I could use the mini coil BMW-Mini coil on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BMW-MINI-COOPER-S-COIL-PACK_W0QQitemZ260308864224QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item260308864224&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1464%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318)
Should be easier to get the connector and terminals from the Mini dealers. There a couple cheap on ebay so I will try and get one
Quote from: paul_f on November 01, 2008, 01:12:59 PM
Or I could use the mini coil BMW-Mini coil on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BMW-MINI-COOPER-S-COIL-PACK_W0QQitemZ260308864224QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item260308864224&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1464%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318)
Winner! Its always worth wandering around the local scrappies and having a look at what you can find, a coil pack is a coil pack is a coil pack, if it works then run with it and replace it with a shiny one later ;)
Did some more work today.
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081101/normal_dsc03366.jpg) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081101/dsc03366.jpg)
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081101/normal_dsc03367.jpg) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081101/dsc03367.jpg)
Using my pillar drill and an end mill, removed the lump around the original centre stud.
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081101/normal_dsc03373.jpg) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081101/dsc03373.jpg)
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081101/normal_dsc03374.jpg) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081101/dsc03374.jpg)
Using a bakelite manifold gasket, I made a template for the two lower studs and drilled the end castings.
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081101/normal_dsc03376.jpg) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081101/dsc03376.jpg)
Endcasting and runners fitted. The endcastings are alloy but the runners are steel. I need to cut off the runners so I can weld on an flange for the throttle bodies. I haven't decided on the height yet, I need to fit injectors and rails before I decide on the whether to make the throttle body flange out of aluminium or steel.
As the runners curve almost immediately, I think they may end up being aluminium. To remove the runners and get the height the same I will hacksaw off the runners, and then bolt two spare heads together (so that they are sitting horizontally) and have the runners milled off.
A common problem with type 4 engines is that the boss that holds the oil pick up tube cracks off. The boss is only used as a height guide, the location is by a lower bolt that holds the oil screen in. If during a service the lower bolt is over tightened the boss will crack.
The cracked boss was snapped off and then a thin air belt sander was used to take it back to clean metal. Japeto kindly had it TIG welded up for me.
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081030/normal_dsc03356.jpg) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081030/dsc03356.jpg)
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081101/normal_dsc03377.jpg) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081101/dsc03377.jpg)
Quite difficult to mount the case to the pillar drill. In the end I made a clamping arrangement with wood and flat bar. It doesn't need to be spot on, as the oil pick up just hangs loosely on the stud.
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081101/normal_dsc03378.jpg) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081101/dsc03378.jpg)
Welds spot faced
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081101/normal_dsc03385.jpg) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/uploads/081101/dsc03385.jpg)
Steel insert fitted with M12 outer and M8 inner
Back when I was at uni I did a little bit of CAD work, so I thought I would have a go at drawing the flange for the throttle bodies to attach to.
I now realise why we only did work with straight lines...
Anyway it is ready for CNC plasma cutting, once I have decided on the thottle body position and therefore whether it will be aluminum or steel. The stud holes will not be cut using the plasma cutter, I will drill and tap them afterwards.
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/normal_flange.jpg) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/flange.jpg)
Long time since any update :o
Anyway I over Xmas I built the 2270 engine and run it in on 40mm carbs. Unfortunately the cam was too mild. So a new one was ordered - 2week delivery time quoted - 8 weeks actual. That is in now and then engine runs great, still on carbs though.
Whilst building the engine I made a mount for the crank sensor (sensor and mount is off a TDCi Mondeo that I had from an old work project)
Making the template for the crank trigger pickup
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/normal_dsc03523.jpg) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/dsc03523.jpg)
Checking the alignment
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/normal_dsc03526.jpg) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/normal_dsc03526.jpg)
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/normal_dsc03527.jpg) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/normal_dsc03527.jpg)
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/normal_dsc03528.jpg) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/normal_dsc03528.jpg)
Last Friday I hooked the sensor up to the scope to check the signal. It would be fine as a trigger for the ECUs we use (diesel) - hopefully it will be fine with the Vems.
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/normal_crank_signal.JPG) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/crank_signal.JPG)
Over the weekend I started building the wiring loom. It is much more time consuming than I imagined. I always thought the wiring guys at work dragged there heels (well I think some did, but they are no longer there!).
Tomorrow evening I can take it from the front room to the garage and start getting the lengths and covering it.
I got the connectors for the mini coil(got two of them now for less than £10 delivered - it seems lots Bini boys are upgrading to the MSD one)
If anyone else needs the connectors here are the part numbers
SOCKET HOUSING 3 PINS BLACK 12527511371
BUSHING CONTACT0,5-1,0MM? 12527511408
BUSHING CONTACT1,2-2,0 MM? 12527511409
It cost about £2.50 I think from the dealers
That coil has a built on igniter!
Ive ripped one open so I know!
If your looking for a 3 wire twin coil to work with VEMS in built igniters then this aint for you.
Quote from: [email protected] on October 31, 2008, 10:12:30 PM
Quote from: paul_f on October 31, 2008, 09:38:46 PMThe plan was to use either one of those MSD coils or a Subaru one. The MSD one looks nice in the photos, but I wasn't impressed with the build quality of their distributors.
I have a 009 distributor that I was considering modifying to give me a CAM trigger, but I have read elsewhere on the forum that this isn't required for sequential injection only for coil on plug. Surely without a CAM trigger the injection could be one of two strokes - or is the idea that as long as it fires during the exhaust or compression stroke then the fuel will sit on the back of the valve (in a port injection system)?
The MSD coils are good if only because they seem to be discounted to hell on ebay and various on-line shops. You could "Keep It Real" and use the VAG
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VOLKWAGON-VW-IGNITION-COIL-AUDI-SEAT-SKODA_W0QQitemZ4574961464QQihZ003QQcategoryZ10372QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
(http://i2.ebayimg.com/01/i/04/f1/13/05_1_b.JPG)
Spot-on with the injection sequencing as long as it fires when the valve is closed then all is good.
Quote from: irishtwincam on June 10, 2009, 05:49:19 PM
That coil has a built on igniter!
Ive ripped one open so I know!
If your looking for a 3 wire twin coil to work with VEMS in built igniters then this aint for you.
Do you mean the VW one
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VOLKWAGON-VW-IGNITION-COIL-AUDI-SEAT-SKODA_W0QQitemZ4574961464QQihZ003QQcategoryZ10372QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
(http://i2.ebayimg.com/01/i/04/f1/13/05_1_b.JPG)
or the Mini coil (black version of the MSD one)
(http://www.msdignition.com/uploadedimages/MSDIgnitioncom/Products/Coils/8229_full.jpg)
What does the built in igniter do?
Now the VW and camping season is over I got back onto the EFI install!
A few months ago I made a completely new wiring loom, and at the same time made the VEMS loom and fitted it and the ECU, but never got round to powering it all up and putting on the sensor connectors.
Tonight I powered it on and after a few sensor checks tested out the crank signal (I had previously checked it with a scope). The VEMS recognized the signal and calculated the engine speed correctly!
I tried the tach out, but that seem to give strange speeds - I'll make a separate post for that though.
Next step is to wire in the coil!
With the tach divider set to 16 I have found just how crap the tacho I is! Below 1500 it under reads, between 1500 and 2000 its about right and then above that it overreads.
Wired in the wideband and calibrated that. Its quite difficult to do that without the display, went and found the display which made it much easier!
Initially terminal was giving me garbage, until I realised it was Man not man!
Hopefully the ignition leads will be with me shortly!
Got it started up as ignition only this evening ;D Ready to move it from my parents to the newly finished garage at my house to take the engine out to fit the fuel pump and throttle bodies. I am determined to finally get it fully running after 3 years ::)
Its always been easier just to chuck the carbs on
Need to check the timing again tomorrow with a mates timing light as mine is playing up and only intermittently firing.
It seems to work though
What should the coil chargetime and the added chargetime @6v be set to?
Quote from: paul_f on January 28, 2010, 04:09:00 AMWhat should the coil chargetime and the added chargetime @6v be set to?
With what exact coil ? All the info in this thread was confusing. You should at least assemble all information about your setup in your first post.
Quote from: paul_f on January 28, 2010, 04:09:00 AM
Got it started up as ignition only this evening ;D Ready to move it from my parents to the newly finished garage at my house to take the engine out to fit the fuel pump and throttle bodies. I am determined to finally get it fully running after 3 years ::)
Its always been easier just to chuck the carbs on
Need to check the timing again tomorrow with a mates timing light as mine is playing up and only intermittently firing.
It seems to work though
What should the coil chargetime and the added chargetime @6v be set to?
I usually put 3-4 ms in there, its basically a value that adds additional charge time at lower voltages - for cold start on iffy batteries and what have you. If you find that you have trouble getting a spark when cranking then it will need a nudge higher.
Quote from: mattias on January 28, 2010, 09:42:14 AM
With what exact coil ? All the info in this thread was confusing. You should at least assemble all information about your setup in your first post.
I agree it is confusing, I'll edit the first post later on to state the setup.
In any case I am using the BMW Mini Cooper OEM coil that looks the same as this MSD one. The same coil is also used on Chrysler/Dodge Neons
http://www.msdignition.com/product.aspx?id=5069
(http://www.msdignition.com/uploadedimages/MSDIgnitioncom/Products/Coils/8229_full.jpg)
I have only had it idling, but I had the chargetime set to 3ms
Quote from: paul_f on January 28, 2010, 04:10:05 PM
Quote from: mattias on January 28, 2010, 09:42:14 AM
With what exact coil ? All the info in this thread was confusing. You should at least assemble all information about your setup in your first post.
I agree it is confusing, I'll edit the first post later on to state the setup.
In any case I am using the BMW Mini Cooper OEM coil that looks the same as this MSD one. The same coil is also used on Chrysler/Dodge Neons
http://www.msdignition.com/product.aspx?id=5069
(http://www.msdignition.com/uploadedimages/MSDIgnitioncom/Products/Coils/8229_full.jpg)
I have only had it idling, but I had the chargetime set to 3ms
From that page I can tell it has 0.051 Ohm primary resistance. That's close to nothing. Have you verified?
Use a 10 Amp fuse.
I'd start with 2 ms and on suspected mis-fire raise it 0.2 ms at a time until it goes away.
My calibrated multimeter at work measures it at 0.6ohms.
I'll take it to the lab to get them to check it though
If you have access to that equipment you could actually get a useful value - with a current clamp and an adjustable pulse you can see what time the coil gets to 6-7A at 13.8V and then at 6V.
Have now fitted Boxster calipers with 911 disks to my bus instead of the 944 NA ones I had before
Before picture
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/normal_DSC05345.JPG) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/DSC05345.JPG)(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/normal_DSC05371.JPG) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/DSC05371.JPG)
Today I started on porting the inlet manifolds, the extra welds at the bottom of the tubes were added so I could transition from the larger tube to the original runner size
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/normal_DSC05376.JPG) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/DSC05376.JPG)
Bore after welding
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/normal_DSC05378.JPG) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/DSC05378.JPG)
Completed porting on one bore, only 3 left!
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/normal_DSC05377.JPG) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/DSC05377.JPG)
Mockup of manifold, throttle body and velocity stack
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/normal_DSC05382.JPG) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/DSC05382.JPG)
(http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/normal_DSC05384.JPG) (http://www.fautley.co.uk/copper/albums/userpics/DSC05384.JPG)
The velocity stack I made by pressing a length of exhaust tube over a 46mm 3/4 drive socket with it all greased up. It worked pretty well, so I am going to get a mandrel turned up with a smoother transition which flares out further and remove the seam from the tube (it is ERW so has a weld seem on the inside)
I'm not sure what do about filters yet. Do the Pipercross socks stretch over velocity stacks and are they any good?
My other option is to mount the velocity stacks into a plate which I then bolt a standard K&N like I currently use with carbs
Well after finishing my throttle body setup, I went to fit them and then realised the injector placement didn't need the small amount of trimming to the body that I had been told (I know I should have checked for myself ;D) - but instead a 80x200mm strip on each side of the engine bay. As one side of the engine bay has the chassis number stamped into it, I wasn't happy cutting a large section out of it especially due to the rumours of a crackdown on modified monocoques http://www.the-ace.org.uk/Chassis-and-Monocoque-Modification.html
Therefore I bit the bullet and bought a set of 42mm Jenveys.
Tonight will hopefully be fire up night
Its started at the first attempt ;D
I had mistakenly swapped the fuel pump and fan outputs, but swapped that. Then tested for ignition, it was 180degrees out so swapped that in the config.
It was a bit late so I just gave it a quick crank with injectors and fuel pump active and it fired immediately.
Tomorrow afternoon I can start tuning to try and get it good enough to drive to the MOT sat lunchtime
Its a good feeling isnt it?
A few hours tuning should get you at MOT stage - you may need to use their gas-analyser to work out the correct fuel injection sequence.
Rob
Yes it is indeed ;D
I am in work this morning and so have collected a full set of test equipment to use.
I was planning on scoping ignition pulses and injection current and then syncing the sequential injections with the ignition pulses (wasted spark) on that cylinder as you recommended in this thread http://195.159.109.134/vemsuk/forum/index.php/topic,614.0.html
I am guessing this is an alternative to using the gas analyzer there. My bus normally doesn't go anywhere near the gas analyzer as it is too old;)
Cool, although its nice to know that your engine is running cleaner than its Wolfsburg inventors could have possibly imagined back in their day.
I'd really like to remove the Subaru engine from my buggy and put an aircooled engine in there running on a VEMS, it seems so much cleaner.
congrats on the success :)
its amazing how well these motors run on EFI - i recently finished up my 1835cc with COP's & ITB's, although its running on an old megasquirt box :-X
I'm not sure you'll get anywhere by adjusting the injection sequence until the injection timing feature is developed. You'll pretty much always be injecting at the wrong time.
Injection timing, which enables full sequential injection, is coming in firmware 1.1.80 very soon, be on the lookout.
Well it drives pretty well without any tuning but the WBO2 doesn't appear to work any more. It reads 0.67 lambda the whole time.
I have checked the pinout and that is fine, 12V is there, but the heater low side drive doesn't appear to be working when i measure voltage across 12v and the heater
It worked when I was running ignition only though.
With the later software can I still connect with terminal and turn the heater on?
I tried the calibrate EGO menu item in Vemstune as I'd guess that would turn the heater on, but when I measured voltage across 12V and WBO2 there was 0V - but 12V was working compared to ground
Hopefully found the answer, for some reason my settings had turned to narrowband ???
I had used Mattias's config as a base so I have no idea why that has happened.
Will 15 mins of running without it being powered have ruined the sensor?
No, it can last alot longer then that without power
Quote from: mattias on July 16, 2010, 11:50:57 AM
I'm not sure you'll get anywhere by adjusting the injection sequence until the injection timing feature is developed. You'll pretty much always be injecting at the wrong time.
Injection timing, which enables full sequential injection, is coming in firmware 1.1.80 very soon, be on the lookout.
Not true, I've set up a number of cars on 36-1 that have benefited from having the sequence adjusted, the HC, CO and NO values all changed dramatically although the lambda stayed exactly the same. If you get access to a decent gas analyser you can clean up idle further by adjusting the inj_open value.
Well have got the MOT ;D
I had to half the req fuel to get a decent idle (I think not having the fuel pressure regulator referenced to MAP means that more fuel is going in than should be), but am working my way up the map
On the way back I broke down pulling up to a roundabout. Due to all the threads about broken components I thought something had failed in the ECU, but I had spark and fuel. After 5 minutes it restarted again (it is difficult to take out the plugs, intake manifolds have to be removed)
I think it is due to the accel enrichment soaking the plugs, as it happened again putting the bus back into the garage.
Set the accel enrichment values to zero while you tune the fuel, let the RPM build without stabbing the throttle.
This will let you tune the engine's VE.
Once thats sorted then its time to start accel enrichment tuning.
Quote from: multiplex on July 16, 2010, 09:36:36 AM
congrats on the success :)
its amazing how well these motors run on EFI - i recently finished up my 1835cc with COP's & ITB's, although its running on an old megasquirt box :-X
Cheers. What COP's are you running? Be interested to hear how reliable they are
Quote from: [email protected] on July 17, 2010, 03:38:27 PM
Set the accel enrichment values to zero while you tune the fuel, let the RPM build without stabbing the throttle.
This will let you tune the engine's VE.
Once thats sorted then its time to start accel enrichment tuning.
Good idea, I'll do that tomorrow.
I need to rewrap the header where I removed it as it was getting scruffy, and also move the IAT sensor.
I put it in the ITG filter baseplates which I have sitting 80mm proud of the throttle bodies (ie halfway up the 120mm trumpets) but it was reading 40degC. I think I will try hanging it from the roof of the engine bay outside the filters so that it reads the temperature of the air going into the filters. Otherwise I will put it in front of the cooling fan as that is moving the most amount of air in the engine bay
Well it wouldn't start today. I put it back to an old map and noticed the starting fueling was 11ms not 5.5ms.
When I had halved the req fuel, I didn't double the cranking VE :o Its wierd how sometimes it started fine, I guess it cooled down enough to get some cold start enrichment.
The IAT sensor is still reading warm sitting at the top of the engine bay. I think I am going to have to find a shorter sensor and drill and tap one of the trumpets and fit it into that. Any one got any recommendations for sensors?
You can use a straight thermistor or one of the OEM ones from the web shop.
Are you aiming to get to Bug Jam.
I have one of the oem ones from the webshop, but it is a bit too long, will take quite a bit of area of the trumpet. ( and might even touch the other side?)
Having a look around I think I will try a Bosch 0 280 130 039 - this is much shorter and I should be able to get it down the road at the Bosch service centre tomorrow
http://apps.bosch.com.au/motorsport/downloads/sensors_temperature.pdf
Next weekend is Bugjam, but it is also Le Bug Show at Spa Franchorchamps which is much cheaper to get into and lots more fun (only VWs unlike Bugjam which last time I went was half full of transits!) - so I am hoping to go to that in the bus. Its not much further than Bugjam.
Well tune by analysis doesn't seem to work on Vemstune with AlphaN, the Y axis in there is in Kpa
However by taking the log file and exporting it to CSV, then scaling TPS by (255/100) I get TPS in 0-255 which works in Megalogviewer (MLV uses TP as a 0-255, whereas the log files from Vemstune are in %)
Theres much better food and beer in Belgium. I prefer European car events to British only ones.
Yes we find they are much better as well! In a month we are going to the Scandanavian Cal Look Classic in Oslo,Norway. Ferry up there and drive back! ;D
Hoping for a good fuel map by the time we are back from Spa, and then fit a dyno session in between to sort out the timing (currently just replicated a mechanical advance only dizzy)
Renting the dyno this afternoon ;D
Filled up with 97RON petrol, I thought it would be better to map it on the worst case fuel as opposed to using 98RON shell or 99RON Tesco fuel
It went pretty well, I got 173bhp@6700 at the flywheel ;D
The fuelling isn't good enough yet, but during a power curve the breather fitting snapped off as the 3/4" oil hose I'd used was too stiff and the fan belt flipped upside down so called it a day.
Now I can use all throttle positions whilst logging and get the fuelling closer. I'd logged the power curve and then used megalogviewer autotune - it suggest some sensible VE changes so I will give that a go driving up the hill.
Fitted the SDcard logger so will see if that works.
And need to look out for new injectors as mine got up to 98% at 7200 rpm (although it was running way too rich there) as hopefully with the ratio rockers I have waiting to go on there will be a bit more power. Currently have 263cc/min ones. Do the shorter pico type injectors work better than the older bosch type?
I'm back after 3212miles with no problems with the Vems or any of the injection!
The filters got very clogged with some of the dirt roads in Norway which reduced fuel consumption compared to earlier in the trip, and the bus is now running quite badly but it needs the valves adjusting etc.
Found I had to richen up and reduce the timing as some of the areas around 2500rpm, 20-35% pedal as I was getting some knock when the road incline increased so increasing load - I guess this is a downside of running alphaN?
There is no added load on the engine if the airflow doesn´t change.
so you must have had to put your foot down a bit more then on a straight road.
No foot position didn't change, but I guess the engine speed started to reduce due to the increase in incline.
On flat road with the engine starting at 2000rpm the engine speed increased through the point without me hearing knock, but then I probably wouldn't as its not that quiet in the bus anyway