hi, im currently have a opel kadett c fitted with toyota 20v silver top, engines in now and im starting to look at vems to run it on, i will need to buy ecu, coil pack (which make is best?) , crank sensor,trigger wheel, (36-1)? air temp sensor, map sensor (internal on ecu)?
the more i read the more it gets technical, or is it a bit of a learn on the job type thing.
will put up some photos soon.
The crank sensor is a 36-1 type, we're talking to a bloke over in Suffolk who can make them for us, it will be a case of dealing with him directly for those. Apart from the crank, the 20V sensors can all be used e.g. TPS, air and water.
Fitting and mapping an ECU is a technical task, but if you understand the basics and approach things in a logic order it can be straight forward. I've done schematics for the VEMS v3 Harness on the 20V 4A-GE which are easy to follow.
Rob
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/jap_kadett/P1020018.jpg)
where im at the minute, engine needs a little more work.
Why didn't use C20XE, or C20LET inside kadet? They are much chiper...
hi, just about to fit ecu, ive checked all my wiring and rechecked, is there anything else to check before i plug in the vems unit, iv still exhaust to finish, so not ready to fire up,what can i check with out trying to start engine it does crank over. no fuel pump in yet.
What trigger are you using?
First step is always to check that you get a stable and clean RPM reading.
Rob
hi rob, using a marrelli sen-8d, only cranking engine over at the moment not turned it over with vems connected yet,
not been able to connect to vems as yet, bought new lap top last week, it using vista and usb to serial port, can connect in the terminal program ok, not been trying long but any help appreciated.
You will be in a very small minority of people who've managed to get the combination of Visa, USB->Serial and MegaTune to work! :o
right gave up on the laptop for now and dragged the desktop out into the garage
ive been connected, not sure if is were i need to be, when opening megatune on select a project iv got vems genboard 12x12 standard and hight boost,was expecting to see car1?
can connect to these and view live 8 dials which respone to tps and the like, how far off im i?
tried the comms tab and checked ecu connection which came back as success , on com 8.
Not sure what you mean by Car1, that's not a thing we use AFAIK.
You'll be wanting 12x12 low boost as you're running NA.
Go to Settings->Basic Settings and check that:
MapRangeUnit is set to 2 (Default)
Table kPa unit is set to 1 (Default)
Then Burn To ECU and then close.
Close MegaTune, then restart and select 12x12 low boost.
I'm going to PM you to ask about the history of this VEMS, just so we know where we stand with the firmware, config what have you.
Rob
Car1 is what you get when using megatune for megasquirt but thats not the case with VEMS's version of megatune
Interesting project. Good luck with it all - sounds like you're nearly there with the basic install. Just the config to go now. Megatune, cheap Prolific USB->serial converters and Vista don't get on all that well, but can be made to work.
I wonder if you have a picture of the steering rack? I think it might be the same casing as on my TVR and I would like to prove it so I can have an alternative parts supply. Thanks!
been a while since i last posted, stripped out the engine bay for a respray, well i have it all together again, and tried starting today, i managed to get it running after a few bouts of head scratching,
it runs and sounds mental, need to learn how to adjust timing running about 5 deg retarded, idling about 1800 rpm,
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/jap_kadett/078-1.jpg)
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/jap_kadett/074-1.jpg)
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/jap_kadett/077.jpg)
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/jap_kadett/073-2.jpg)
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/jap_kadett/075-1.jpg)
Does the VEMS say that its idling retarded? Or is it the timing light.
If its the VEMS then you need to adjust the TDC after trigger value in Trigger settings. If its the timing light then you need to remember that wasted spark coil packs do strange things to timing lights that have built in advance compensation - if this is the case you need to set the timing light to zero and dial in the timing from there.
Good work on getting it running.
QuoteDoes the VEMS say that its idling retarded? Or is it the timing light.
it was on timing light, but found i had the setting of crank wheel out. that and the vacuum leak gave me a idle of 1800 =rpm,
now its down to around 750rpm, which is a little low,but smells rich on exhaust
i dont want to start messing with it too much as i dont fully understand it all yet,
Nicely done on solving the problems. If its rich then start to mess with the fuel map - save your configs before you start so you can revert to the original setup.
Let your nose guide you to start with, then when the mixture is getting leaner and the idle smoother use the wideband to get the fuel spot-on.
can you see any problems with where ive fitted the wideband, about 100mm from head on cly 1?
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/jap_kadett/024-1.jpg)
It really needs to be after all the cylinders have merged. That bung might be good for an EGT sensor.
will fit new bung into exhaust, did notice but dont know if its a problem relating to the wrong set up i was running at weekend, but cly 3 and 4 exhaust pipes have been a lot hotter than the other two?
What do the plugs tell you about the mixture on those two cylinders?
We know that the timing will be okay as its a wasted spark coil pack.
On a 4age #4 runs the hottest.
Might be worth noting what goes on there, or if you want an average for all 4, 3 or 2.
1 should run best for tuning.
WBO2 needs to bee inthe merged section
got bung this morning will weld it on latter after exhaust cools down,
had a look at plugs after very short run, running rich and slightly wet, i started playing around with ve map, started quite low untill it would not start so looks like a play around with these, still learning very slowly,
but managed to get new lap top to communicate with vems which has vista on, nearly bought another laptop on xp last week,
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/jap_kadett/th_P1020447.jpg) (http://s306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/jap_kadett/?action=view¤t=P1020447.flv)
i ve got a mot booked tomorrow, and have only driven the car 100yards and back,
basically have some noob questions,
should map gauge increase with throttle gauge with engine not running
how do you calibrate an unknown map sensor if all.
car running lambda .84 still to rich,
how come spark angle so far advanced when manufacture recommends 10 btdc, running around 31 deg btdc
how do you calibrate battery?
sorry for the dump stuff, any help might be useful before mot tomorrow,
i have a coupe of datalogs if these can help in any why,
How much is the MAP gauge changing?
A unknown map sensor would be ideally checked with a vacuum pump (brake fluid changing for instance)
so you have two voltage outputs at known pressures, this will allow you to figure out the highest value at about 4,5volts
then you put that into your config and adjust for 100kpa.
Have you double checked that your timing values are correct with a timing light?
You measure the battery voltage with a multimeter and adjust the Battery Calibration value until your vbatt is the same as your multimeter
going up to 255kpa with engine stopped at 100% throttle?
battery makes sense now, thanks
ive set trigger wheel to
67 deg after tdc,
35 teeth
1 trigger tooth
18 next event
sensor at bottom of crank wheel,
missing tooth 67deg after sensor.
might be easier to buy known value map
Sounds like you have it set up for Alpha-N
went for mot today, failed badly on emissions 12% co and around 2000 hydrocarbons,
car would not pull, would pick up ok on slight downhill, would not pull going back up,
had to ride the clutch to get it to move, rechecked timing all looked ok,
alpha-n was enabled but did seem to make any difference,
If your car isn´t driving near perfect you´ll pretty much always fail MOT
This does sound like the car needs a good amount of tuning.
What Lambda are you seeing at idle?
I have seen cars on lambda 1.0 with stupidly high CO and HC, suddenly come into spec when the injector sequence is changed, so its worth looking to see if you can ensure that the injector is firing onto a closed valve.
20V engines have a VVT dont they? Are you sure that the solenoid is not active and hasn't moved the cam position?
car was idling at 1.00 for about 30secs than dropped down to .84, thats what he tested it at,
how do you test injector timing?
yes its got a vvt valve, will test that also.
car starts and idles well, but underivable, and with no mot or tax no road test possible for the time being,
It will never pass at 0.84, does it usually drop down after being at 1.0 for a while? If so can you datalog this?
Injector sequence is defined in h[0], I've explained something about sequencing here: http://195.159.109.134/vemsuk/forum/index.php/topic,614.msg6648.html#msg6648
The VVT should fail safe, meaning that it will be off if disconnected
vvt not coming on so thats fine,
so looking at timing issue.
i have 67 deg from first tooth after missing one to sensor,
which fires at tdc on timing wheel cranking,
so that looks right?
injector timing h[0]
0>2
1>8
2>4
3>1
have i got this right in my head,
injectors fire in sequence starting at tooth trigger, so thats tdc at cylinder 1 , so would like to inject at cylinder that last fired which
would be 2, next to fire will be 3 so inject at 1, next to fire 4 and inject at 3, and lastly fire at 2 and inject at 4
spark inject h[0] table
1 2 2
3 1 1
4 3 4
2 4 8
Sounds about right, your spark table remains fixed, the two injector alternatives are:
spark inject alternative inject
1 2 1
3 1 4
4 3 8
2 4 2
made some progress today
changed injector sequence to 2,1,4,8 and 1,4,8,2 car runs at lot better, pulls better but still requires tuning, i tinker with these to see how they affect co hc levels.
also being a plank i found that the fuse was not in for the wideband, doh! i take it its not good for the sensor?
i can now see some results, from the various setting changes,
any tips on getting it set well enough to get it mot'd,
An unheated sensor is not a happy thing at all. Personally I'd take the thing out of the exhaust, switch on the heater (mde02 in terminal) and let it get a chance to burn some of the soot off in clean air. As long as sensor hasn't been run for long unpowered you should be okay.
failed to get wideband to come on using terminal, what have i done wrong now,
tried it in mini terminal in megatune, code never done anything,
does this look right, one minute i think its right then doubt it
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/jap_kadett/triggerwheel-1.jpg)
black marker at tdc 1+4
red is sensor, position in the middle of tooth gap.
have it set to
70 deg after tdc
trigger tooth 0
If your timing light tells you that your timing is spot on then there shouldn't be a problem.
What is concerning you about the timing wheel?
car has no power, and cant stop it running very rich, used 25 lts of fuel, idles fine, revs fine and always starts straight away,
timing light says ok, but have noticed timing mark jumping further round about 90 deg not constantly,
What sort of PW are you seeing at idle?
It sounds like a fuel problem more than ignition - but the 90deg jump sounds strange, do you hear a change in the engine note?
I take it that you've got your timing light set to 0deg Advance? A lot of lights that have advance get confused with wasted spark.
rob if emailed you my data log, if you could look over it for me, thanks
ive got two settings missing on injector settings
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/jap_kadett/injectorsettings.jpg)
could this be a problem, opening to long.
Having those two values set to 0 means that the injectors are held open for less time, rather than guessing the characteristics of the injector and the scaling for battery deviation setting them to 0 turns it off.
How much fuel have you tried pulling out on the VE map at idle? Does the car run smoothly with less fuel or does it start getting erratic?
ive played about with the reqfuel setting in basic settings, from 4.2 down to 2.5 and up to 5.5
and also adjusted it on the ve table, mind i probably doing some thing wrong, changing it this way
(http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/jap_kadett/vetable.jpg)
ive tried it loads of ways, so need to start from scratch, and start again,
what do you recommend.
Hi,
I'd calculate your req_fuel, set all ve table entries to 100 and tune from there.
Leave the ve at 100 at idle and adjust the req fuel down (if too rich) to get the mixture close at idle then start on the tables.
Make sure your not still running in cranking mode or afterstart.
Have you got the WB sensor in the exhuast, what's it telling you?
Cheers,
Gavin :)
I went to visit Ali today.
re adjusted the base timing as it was a few degress off(nice of toyota to put up the degree info next to the timing gear :) )
Alpha-n / SD blend was not working that nicely so i set it to Alpha-N only and now it´s running real nice.
Sounds great and responds very nicely.
thanks again,looking good now i will give it a going over after i get sump re done,
been running the car now for 3 months, all looking good, and now using it every day as waiting for new car to arrive,
so getting various issues sorted.
manly the icv never really had it working so decided to check it out, problem i have with switching on and off at idle
shows on in megatune,
its has two 20 ohm coil, and was wired like this
http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMSSchematics/Toyota4AGE20V/Toyota20VSchematic.png (http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMSSchematics/Toyota4AGE20V/Toyota20VSchematic.png)
i would have thought the +12v would have been the middle connection? which ive tried but still get it fluttering on and off.
The middle one is +12v, one side opens, the other side shuts.
If its using the 20V config I did, then I have Dual Solenoid option enabled - this uses the two FETs adjacent to each other to flutter the IACV open and shut.
You could Disable the Dual Solenoid option Extras->Idle Settings General and select the FET channel that closes the IACV
then you'll have a range of control from the max RPM that you have with the IACV disconnected to when it is fully closed.
do you have a spark map?
if so could you post it?
We got grants car running OK so he could drive it back. but the spark map is weak.
we went on the safe side with that. we could not find any 20V black top spark MAPs.
will try and get it on soon
Yes please! I bumped up ignition timing quite a bit, but I'm still hesitant to go too far. I could not get the knock sensor to give me a reasonable output when tapping on the block with a spanner so I don't trust it yet.
Dyno is your friend.
Raising timing doesn´t give be best results