hey guys i just found this forum and its awesome! i'll post some pics up soon but its a 84 euro that i got for free and it ran great until i decided to install vems. i removed the stock intake manifold and installed a late m20 manifold with stock blue top injectors and t/b and a e36 tps. i removed stock engine wiring harness and wired up everything tonight and gave it a crank for the first time and got spark out of the coil but none out of the distributor... not sure whats going on.. any ideas? i set h[2] to 00 only. 0 is "0 (EC36 Pin 35).
the outputs are set to 00 only in the setting screen. the coil charge time 14v is 3.01 and the 6v is 2.0. i'm stumped and am sure its something simple.
check the distributor and set dwell to 2.5ms instead of 3ms
;)
Chances are that the coil is discharging when the rotor arm is nowhere near an ignition post on the distributor cap. Its a pain to get your mind round the fact that the ignition is not synchronised by the distributor but by the ECU calculating postion from the trigger wheel (both Ben Fenner and I have had the same PITA experience with our Nissan installs and ended up going straight to coil packs or COPs to stop the pain)
To get the thing running I'd use the 1.0.73 release
Set TDC after the trigger to 60 and Trigger tooth value to 0 in Settings->Primary Trigger Settings, then increase the Trigger tooth value in single steps.
Use your timing light on the coil and try to bring the mark towards the value you've set to cranking advance. I usually stick a strip of light coloured insulating tape onto the front of the pulley in line with the timing mark so that I can find it easier to find it.
Once you're somewhere near the timing mark, move over to the distributor and use that to trigger your timing light as the rotor arm should be close enough to distribute the spark to the plug.
thanks for your input! i'll change those settings tonight but i can't move the distributor its locked in place
after so many years and never being adjusted. would it be easier to change the distributor from the side
of the motor to the cap on the front of the cam?
No particular reason to move the distributor at all, you can tune the setup using the trigger tooth and the TDC after trigger values.
If you wanted to do anything modification wise, throw the distributor in the bin and go wasted spark or coil on plug :)
Rob
You should mount the 60-2 wheel on the crank puley and use 325i distributor and cap on cam,that is way easyer and you can use semi-sequential injection.Just block the place when old distributor was,down to the block...
Its a good choic that you decided to get rid of that old Jetronic shit,you will expirience more power with VEMS.
Good Luck
P.S You have mail!
i already changed the crank pulley to a 60-2 wheel and crank sensor from a late model e30. when i get home i'll swap the distributor out (if i can get it out) and move the cap and wires to the cam and hopefully get rid of the timing issue i'm having. i too am going to turbo this car. i have a gt35r and 50mm blow off valve with 44 v band wastegate and a custom tubular manifold and 4 inch exhaust already built. i had this stuff built over a year ago and never messed with it until now.
ok well i changed the cam timing gear and distributor to the front of the cam but same thing has happened. i get spark from the coil but
not out of the plugs. where can i read about what all the primary trigger setting mean and how to find that information? rob i tryed what you said about setter the trigger tooth to 0 and started climbing 1 by 1 and after 25 it wouldn't even spark anymore. anything else i could be totally over looking?
it runs! thanks guys for your help. rob after i upload .73 it just worked before i changed any settings! tomorrow i'll start the tuning after
i run down to vw and get a o2 sensor
I`m running 1.0.73 and didnt had any problems ;)
Keep us updated!
;)
why is my spark angle stuck at -.75degrees while the engine is off even i have it set to 13 degrees in the priming,cranking and after start?
I'm guessing that your anti-lag is stuck on.
Good to see you've got it running. DanMartin had the same problem with his e30, except it seemed to be a config upload problem. Starting fresh and entering all the same data into VEMS configuration instead of uploading a config file seemed to solve his spark problem (he had spark at the coil but not at the distributor).
I forget which firmware he's using...
Good to see another turbo BMW in the works. =]
anti lag is off i think. the deactivation time and deactivation EGT is 0. the input channel is old: SDA. i'm watching the ignition map and its about 20 degrees but the spark angle gauge is -49degrees. suggestions?
what does this mean? i found it in the audit log
C:\VemsMT1.0.73Final\VEMS Genboard V3 16x14 Standard\bmw323-3.msq:Open
WARNING(03): Value from option list "h21_dummy" = "INVALID" not found.
WARNING(03): Value from option list "h22_dummy" = "INVALID" not found.
WARNING(03): Value from option list "h23_dummy" = "INVALID" not found.
WARNING(03): Value from option list "h24_dummy" = "INVALID" not found.
WARNING(03): Value from option list "h25_dummy" = "INVALID" not found.
WARNING(03): Value from option list "h27_dummy" = "INVALID" not found.
WARNING(03): Value from option list "h2d0" = "INVALID" not found.
WARNING(03): Value from option list "h2d1" = "INVALID" not found.
WARNING(03): Value from option list "h2d2" = "INVALID" not found.
WARNING(03): Value from option list "h2d3" = "INVALID" not found.
WARNING(03): Value from option list "h2d4" = "INVALID" not found.
WARNING(03): Value from option list "h2d5" = "INVALID" not found.
WARNING(03): Value from option list "h2d6" = "INVALID" not found.
WARNING(03): Value from option list "h2d7" = "INVALID" not found.
WARNING(03): Value from option list "boost_conf_pwm" = "INVALID" not found.
Are you using an MSQ from another version?
ALS input should be disabled, and you should generate your config using generate-config12x12WithDefaults.bat
Rob
thanks rob for you help! i installed the .73 firmware 12*12 but now i can't get any spark. so i changed back to the 14*16 and i get spark but it just stays
on -.75degrees and if i try to rev alittle it goes to -50 and knocks even though my maps are set at 15degrees. when vems is on but not running the spark angle shows -.75 and won't let me change it. it should say 13 degrees like it does in the cranking and after start screen. maybe reloading the firmware isn't doing anything? the files load and disappear so quick to see anything.
If the windows disappear quickly then its not doing anything - use a comand window to see what the program is reporting - you cant have MegaTune open while you're trying to upload, and you have to set the com port correctly in the batchfile.
If you right-click->Edit... the file upload-firmware12x12.bat then you'll see the line:
tools\megaloader.exe firmware\vems.hex -wtE -c com1
Change the com1 value to the correct port.
i should have posted yesturday i fixed it. after reading one of the docs in wiki it talks about typing "S" and waiting for the avr---- response then "v". after that i went to run and forced the bootloader without the "t" like "tools\megaloader.exe firmware\vems.hex -wE -c com1" and it uploaded correctly then i ran terminal and "make mtt" then ran the upload config. opened megatune 12*12 with defaults and everything seems to be working. i can now change the timing in the cranking menu and see it change on the spark angle gauge which i couldn't see before. i started the car and let it warm up yesturday and it idles pretty smooth at 800 but wouldn't rev up without dying out. time to play with the tuning part! thanks for your input rob!
Quote from: DevInAz on January 07, 2008, 12:18:58 AM
i can't get the car to rev up. suggestions?
----8<------------ Snipped --------------
does this information help?
Not really, we'd need the datalog file in its entirity.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
well i got the car loaded with .73 firmware after a bit of fighting and got the car running and have been driving it around the last couple of days alittle here and there but i can't seem to get the idle right. what is the engine type? even or odd? not sure what that means. here are some settings that i have right now but i've been changing things back and forth to figure out whats best.
http://www.seanpersons.com/vems/vetable
http://www.seanpersons.com/vems/basic
http://www.seanpersons.com/vems/crank
http://www.seanpersons.com/vems/target
http://www.seanpersons.com/vems/spark
http://www.seanpersons.com/vems/driving1
http://www.seanpersons.com/vems/driving2
what do you guys think?
For starters I'd change those values of 15 in your spark table to 20, and make the bottom left value in the spark tables something higher, like 35 or 45.
Why do you want your A/F ratios so low during idle? Nothing wrong with a 1.0+ lambda during idle, so you might want to change that in your lambda target map as well. Your EGO correction is doing a ton of work to richen the mixure during idle because your VE table value in the bottom left doesn't correspond to the lambda target value at all. Do you get my drift?
Have you halved your req_fuel and doubled the VE table values? Because your VE tables look very high, and yet your req-fuel looks high as well... =/
when i opened megatune for the first time i got my req fuel from robs manual and figured that out
then left the base map the way it was when i opened the program. now that you say that maybe i should
have halfed my ve table since i doubled my req fuel. it was at 8 then after i changed it, it went to 16.7.
should i go through and half my ve table now?
Did you tune the VE table with req_fuel at 8? If so, and you've upped the req_fuel to 16.7, you should halve your VE table values.
well i listened to what you said ben and i halfed all of my ve table. the car started idling perfect after that. so we took it out for a spin and started tuning slow speeds first. hers my latest log.
www.seanpersons.com/vems/NEW2.msq
www.seanpersons.com/vems/NEW1.xls
can someone take a look at my logs for me I was told that I have some pretty bad errors but not how to fix it.. Thanks
Logs from last year?
yea the logs are old because nothing has changed on the car. I put this project away after my wife got really sick and i'm just now getting it out again.
Well the msq is just filled with errors.
Have you double checked your ignition timing?
I was going to talk to mattias about making a M20 base map for 1.1.60+ firmwares.
So maybe I can upload something for you to try tomorrow.
ok thanks, I did what mattias said and emailed him but didn't hear anything back. I just want to make sure I sent it to the correct email. I'm not in a rush and appriciate your help! Devin
My ignition map is 100% secure on the low quality fuel,no knocks,i`m drifitng 2 years with that map,not a single problem.If you tune it on the dyno there will be probably some changes to gain more power...
You can take it from my topic.
I`m upgrading my complete suspension and some more thing on my car,as soon as i get it done,i`ll post how h1c is working.
I've had other things to do this weekend than to compose mail and create configs but I've gotten around to sending you an e-mail with a .vemscg file that you should upload after you've upgraded your ECU to 1.1.64 or later. You will have to use VemsTune to do this but I encourage you to try it as this is the latest stuff and I'm using it on my stock E30 320 -89 with the same setup as yours.
Read this thread briefly : http://195.159.109.134/vemsuk/forum/index.php/topic,1050.0.html
and download from here (latest date) : http://www.vems.hu/download/v3gui/
Use the built-in firmware tools to do the upgrade. You'll find it in the "Tools" menu, first use the web download tool to get and activate the 1.1.64 or later firmware, then use the upgrade tool to upload it with "C/NTC/2063/256" setting for both IAT and CLT sensors. You'll see what I mean when you try it.
As a basic rule you must do this with NO POWER to ignition coils, injectors and anything else grounded through the ECU output drivers. I hope they are all using fuses.
My config is setup to work with the stock ICV and I use ignition advance to control idle as well. I have disabled the ICV in the config to make life easier for you. The ignition advance control at idle is active unless you disable it.
- If you use it you MUST keep the TPS calibrated so that when you release the throttle to let the engine idle then the throttle position is below the idle TPS threshold (set under Idle settings). When the engine is warmed up you must set the idle rpm using the throttle blade adjustment (unless you're using the ICV) and you want to set it so that the idle ignition advance function retards the timing from 25 (as read in the ignition advance table) down to 10-15 degrees advance in order to maintain the 850 rpm hot idle rpm (set the rpm under Idle settings if this does not suit you).
I have 133 cc/min injectors, yours are probably a bit larger so you might want to lower req fuel a bit, but please try it with no changes to this value at first. Press F1 for help in each settings window and you'll see a help text (of which I've written the most) which describes how to calculate the req fuel. Check the Bosch number on your injectors and you can double check the injector flow on this page :
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm#BOSCH
Your only real output (read from your MSQ file) is driving the fuel pump and was using P259 ch 5 (EC36-pin15). Open my config (off-line just on your computer) and see that I have changed that to I259-7 (EC36-pin10) which is a much safer option. I don't trust the P259 drivers to last unless proper diode protection is added, this is a known problem.
I've also activated a tacho/rpm output on S259-3 (EC18-pin4) which works directly with the stock tach on my E30 -89. On your -84 I'm not sure that works, and you might not need it because I'm pretty sure the stock tacho uses the ignition coil negative/ground on your car.
You have to enter the calibration values for the wideband controller (which you got via e-mail when you bought your ECU), if you don't have them then PM/e-mail me your serial number and I can get those for you. Calibrate all your other sensors and you should be set to start the car. Please strobe the ignition timing to double check the primary trigger settings match your engine.
Test this and give us feedback on both what problems you encounter with the settings and the engine, and on VemsTune itself which is in development (but very useable already).