Hi All,
I have a BMW E30 with a M30B35 turbo engine. I have had the fuel running via my VEMS Genboard V3.4 for several months now. Doesnt idle great but I get pretty good EGO readings after a bit of road tuning up to about 3 PSI of boost, and then she starts misfiring quite badly.
Therefore I want to move to my wasted spark ignition setup from the stock dizzy.
I wired everything up (IGBT 1,2,0 firing order) and it fires its first of 2 sparks on each wasted coil correctly, but the second fire is 360 degrees out. e.g. it will fire cylinder one, wait until the engine comes right back around PAST cylinder one again, then fires cylinder 6 when it comes around. I know this as I left the dizzy in place and watched where the rotor was when the coils fired.
I have looked at my settings for DAYS and cant find the probably simple answer to this!
Setup:
M30B35 straight 6 engine
780CC low Z injectors
60-2 factory trigger wheel, Cherry Hall effect sensor in place of factory VR sensor
genboard v3.4 firmware v1.1.18 using 12x12 high boost map on megatune.
Config and tables:
j[0]=1080 0F80 1080 1080 1280 1480 1580 1580 1A80 1F80 1F80 1F80
j[1]=1380 1480 1780 1880 1980 1A80 1980 2080 2180 2580 2480 2480
j[2]=1180 1780 1A80 1680 1780 1D80 2280 2280 2980 2A80 2980 2980
j[3]=1280 1880 1F80 2280 2A80 2E80 3380 3780 3780 3880 3880 3780
j[4]=1980 1E80 2B80 3B80 3E80 4280 4680 4880 4780 4980 4B80 4D80
j[5]=2C80 4080 4980 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 4080 4980 end_of_the_skype_highlighting 4E80 5380 5780 5680 5A80 5880 5980 5A80 5F80
j[6]=3380 5180 5880 5D80 5E80 6080 6180 6280 6480 6380 6380 6880
j[7]=3480 6380 7680 7E80 7F80 8280 8380 8880 8680 8680 8680 8E80
j[8]=3780 8280 AF80 CF80 CF80 D380 D480 D680 D580 D780 DB80 E180
j[9]=3D80 8F80 C380 D180 DB80 E080 E880 E980 E680 EA80 EF80 F080
j[A]=4180 A180 C780 DE80 E880 ED80 F480 F780 F580 FD80 FF80 FE80
j=4680 B680 DB80 E580 F080 F280 F880 FA80 FF80 FF80 FF80 FF80
l[0]=40 3B 31 2C 2C 2C 2C 2C 2C 2C 2C 2C
l[1]=40 3B 2F 2C 2C 2C 2C 2C 2C 2C 2C 2C
l[2]=40 4D 36 31 31 31 31 31 31 31 31 31
l[3]=4D 51 34 34 34 34 34 34 34 34 34 34
l[4]=4F 4F 3B 37 37 37 37 37 37 37 37 37
l[5]=66 4D 47 47 43 43 43 3D 3D 3D 3D 3D
l[6]=55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55 55
l[7]=66 66 66 6B 66 66 66 66 66 66 66 6B
l[8]=6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B 6B
l[9]=6D 6D 6D 6D 6D 6D 6D 6D 6D 6D 6D 6D
l[A]=70 70 70 70 70 70 70 70 70 70 70 70
l=70 70 70 70 70 70 70 70 70 70 70 70
n[0]=3C 3C 50 64 98 A4 B4 B4 B4 B4 B4 B4
n[1]=3C 3C 64 64 8C 98 A8 A8 A8 A8 A8 A8
n[2]=3C 3C 5C 70 80 90 A0 A0 A0 A0 A0 A0
n[3]=50 3C 58 78 80 88 98 98 98 98 98 98
n[4]=50 3C 50 74 7C 84 8C 8C 8C 8C 8C 8C
n[5]=50 3C 50 68 70 78 78 78 78 78 78 78
n[6]=50 3C 50 5C 64 6C 6C 6C 6C 6C 6C 6C
n[7]=50 3C 50 58 58 58 5C 60 68 68 68 68
n[8]=50 3C 50 58 58 58 5C 5C 5C 5C 5C 5C
n[9]=50 3C 50 54 58 4C 4C 50 58 58 58 58
n[A]=50 3C 50 54 54 48 48 4C 5C 5C 5C 5C
n=50 3C 50 50 50 50 50 54 58 58 58 58
k[0]=0A 14 1E 28 32 41 4B 55 5F 69 73 7D
r[0]=05 07 0D 14 19 1E 23 28 32 39 3F 46
h[0]=04 10 02 08 01 20 40 80
h[1]=00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
h[2]=10 20 00 02 01 00 21 11
b[0]=80 01 00 28 32 41 50 5A 5A 5A 32 00
primep=96
primep_temp_scaling=1A
cwl=0F
cwh=08
cranking_thres=03
awev=0A
awev_temp_scaling=0F
awec=64
warmup_clt_range[0]=24
warmup_clt_range[1]=49
warmup_clt_range[2]=5F
warmup_clt_range[3]=75
warmup_clt_range[4]=8B
warmup_clt_range[5]=A1
warmup_clt_range[6]=B8
warmup_clt_range[7]=CE
warmup_clt_range[8]=E4
warmup_clt_range[9]=FA
warmup_clt[0]=AA
warmup_clt[1]=A0
warmup_clt[2]=91
warmup_clt[3]=8C
warmup_clt[4]=82
warmup_clt[5]=78
warmup_clt[6]=6E
warmup_clt[7]=6A
warmup_clt[8]=64
warmup_clt[9]=64
warmup_rpm_scale=BF
req_fuel=28
divider=01
alternate=15
injopen=06
battfac=13
kpafac=7D
kpaoffs=D0
injocfuel=08
injrampup_battfac=7D
injpwm=BF
injpwmt=0C
als_launch_input=0C
rpmk[0]=07
rpmk[1]=D0
tpsdot_kpadot_conf=00
tpsdotrate[0]=08
tpsdotrate[1]=0F
tpsdotrate[2]=19
tpsdotrate[3]=28
tpsaq[0]=0F
tpsaq[1]=11
tpsaq[2]=13
tpsaq[3]=18
als_cut_mintps=FF
tpsasync=02
acmult=C8
tpsacold=96
launch_enrich=00
launch_retard=00
overrun_fuelcut=1E
overrun_fuelresume=1C
rev_limit=3C
airden_ignore=62
config11=51
config12=40
config13=0A
batt_cal=BC
fastidle=90
als_max_cut=00
dbaro=0C
tps_low=2A
tps_high=E0
fan_temp=C6
fan_hyst=00
fan_channel=70
iac_step_seq=C9
iac_conf=D2
iac_max_steps=32
iac_tps_thres=03
iac_cold_idle_temp=90
iac_warm_idle_temp=92
iac_cold_rpm=7B
iac_warm_rpm=5C
iac_cold_start_pos=E6
iac_warm_start_pos=D9
iac_afterstart_rpm=0F
iac_afterstart_duration=FF
iac_speed=02
iac_kp=14
iac_ki=0F
iac_kd=1E
launch_rpm=14
iac_integral_limit_dec=32
iac_integral_limit_inc=8C
iac_integral_deadband=14
iac_deadband=0A
als_cut_maxtps=00
iac_overclose_interval=80
iac_ref_pos[0]=BF
iac_ref_pos[1]=B3
iac_ref_pos[2]=A6
iac_ref_pos[3]=99
iac_ref_pos[4]=8C
iac_ref_pos[5]=80
iac_ref_pos[6]=73
iac_ref_pos[7]=66
iac_ref_pos[8]=59
iac_ref_pos[9]=4D
iac_sol_channel=60
iac_ign_slope=20
softrpm_range=04
iac_ign_advance_limit=08
iac_ign_retard_limit=08
iac_ign_threshold=08
ego_conf=06
ego_lag=01
ego_coolant=A2
ego_maxtps=E6
ego_maxmap=FF
ego_minrpm=0F
ego_maxrpm=46
ego_warmup=0A
ego_lean_limit=4D
ego_rich_limit=40
ego_pid_kp=14
als_enrich=00
ego_delta=03
ego_target=19
ego_pid_window=FF
wbo2_warmup_ramp=C0
als_react_tps=00
wbo2_abs_limit=F5
wbo2_limit_maxt=A0
wbo2_fallback=60
wbo2_retry_t=06
als_retard_rpm1=BA
als_retard_rpm2=50
wbo2_ri_target=9A
wbo2_nernstdc_target=89
wbo2_pump_pw_zero=67
wbo2_calibration=CE
wbo2_heater_pid_kp=46
wbo2_heater_pid_ki=10
wbo2_heater_pid_kd=1A
wbo2_heater_pid_ilimit=80
wbo2_pump_pid_kp=15
wbo2_pump_pid_ki=37
wbo2_pump_pid_kd=00
wbo2_pump_pid_ilimit=FF
wbo2_ri_confidence_scale=80
knock_conf=00
knock_sampling_window=FF
knock1_frequency=29
knock1_gain=3F
knock1_integrator=1F
knock2_frequency=29
knock2_gain=3F
knock2_integrator=1F
knock_threshold=FF
knock_noise_scale=FF
knock_max_retard=00
knock_default_retard=00
knock_retard_step=00
knock_retard_delay=00
knock_advance_step=00
knock_advance_delay=00
knock_minrpm=FF
knock_maxrpm=FF
ve_learn_coolant=A2
ve_learn_max_power=C8
ve_learn_rpm_scale=4B
ve_learn_kpa_scale=55
ve_learn_ego_scale=5F
ve_learn_min_weight=14
ve_learn_speed=FA
ve_learn_limit=80
ve_learn_conf=01
lcd_c0=CF
lcd_delay=EF
lcd_backlight=FF
kpa_conf=22
als_igncut_rpm2=00
als_retard_mintps=FF
als_retard_maxtps=00
lcd_default_view=00
primary_trigger=10
secondary_trigger=02
tooth_wheel=3A
trigger_tooth=05
another_trigger_tooth=14
crank_minper=8A
tooth_wheel_twidth1=00
tooth_wheel_twidth2=00
cam_sync_r_edge_phase=01
cam_sync_f_edge_phase=02
reset_engphase_after=F0
ign_tdcdelay=B0
ign_dwell14=1F
ign_dwell6=38
ign_crank_advance=24
ign_out=70
ignchmax=02
engine_off_delay=0F
pump_on_mintime=0B
fuelpump_channel=FF
inj_stage2_rate=FF
inj_stage2_start_tps=FF
inj_stage2_start_map=FF
als_igncut_rpm1=FF
als_deact_time=01
als_deact_egt=00
als_retard=00
als_rev_limit=40
misc1out_minrpm=01
misc1out_maxrpm=FF
misc1out_mintps=FF
misc1out_maxtps=FF
misc1out_minmap=FF
misc1out_maxmap=FF
misc1out_channel=0F
misc2out_minrpm=FF
misc2out_maxrpm=FF
misc2out_mintps=FF
misc2out_maxtps=FF
misc2out_minmap=FF
misc2out_maxmap=FF
misc2out_channel=0F
act_wot_rpm=FF
act_wot_channel=07
act_rpm_rpm=FF
act_rpm_channel=FF
egt1_cal=47
als_tks_channel=FF
boost_conf=00
boost_targetoffs=00
boost_minpressure=FF
boost_pid_kp=20
boost_pid_ki=80
boost_pid_kd=01
boost_pid_ilimit=FF
boost_channel=FF
water_pump_temp=6E
hybrid_rpm_a=00
hybrid_rpm_m=00
water_pump_hyst=00
water_pump_channel=FF
toothrel_normal=66
toothrel_missing=7F
fuelcut_min_kpa=0A
fuelcut_max_kpa=7D
tach_channel=0F
tach_div=FF
shiftcut_conf=01
shiftcut_channel=FF
shiftcut_time=00
softrpm_rpm=82
I would be grateful for any info you can provide!
Regards,
Damian.
First off, what firmware are you running?
We're a bit confused as to why you changed from a VR sensor to a Hall?
Hi Rob,
as stated in the first post, firmware is version 1.1.18 - am I ok to be using the 1.1 branch or should I be on the 1.0 branch? Seems to have the fuel working well, and reports RPM correctly.
I changed to hall effect as I had no luck with getting a clean signal from my factory vr sensor - i would say that is why the car i got the engine from was junked in the first place! I had some good hall effects at my disposal so I used one. could this cause an issue? I think it goes high after each falling edge, would have to read the datasheet to recall exactly. RPM comes up spot on with the config above - am I fooling myself e.g. my rpmk half what it should be for a 6? I think its OK.
help?? ;) :o
Yep, I missed the firmware version. 1.1.18 is good to use, there are a number of people using it happily with the Nissan trigger, although for missing tooth as you have here I'd personally give 1.0.73 a try
The trouble with hall is that all the datasheets I've seen for the Honeywell 1GT101 s that we use have got lower tooth counts and low max RPM values, so my instant fear is that you're got a problem with that, when people make up crank triggers for hall sensors they use 2 to 4 teeth equally spaced 60deg BTDC of each piston.
If you're getting to the maximum RPM that the thing can handle you may be getting trigger errors - these will show up as redlines in your datalogs.
The only thing that I can suggest straight away is the primary_trigger=10 value, have you tried 00 or 01
Hi again Rob,
I have absolutely 0 trigger errors, I have been driving the car for some time now on fuel only. The timing is bang on when the sparks do occur, just that they occur only once every 720 degrees instead of twice as they should for wasted spark.
I am using a cherry sensor, not honeywell, the specs are even better on it.
I noticed in another post in this section a guy fixed his 1/4 speed ignition by adding the same output 4 times to the h table, maybe I should try that? i.e. go 1 2 0 1 2 0 and set ignchmax to 5? I thought I had already tried that with no success, but I will do it again and see.
I am very hesitant to change firmware versions as everything else works 100%, and the ignition is very close!
Thats good to know that your not getting trigger errors, we were concerned that the Hall might not work as expected, if it does then you'll have taught us something new.
If you decide to try a different firmware version its easy to go back to where you originally were, make sure you save your tables and config. But its guaranteed to work.
Here's the trigger config from a working M50 engine running 1.1.18:
primary_trigger=01
secondary_trigger=02
tooth_wheel=3A
trigger_tooth=05
another_trigger_tooth=14
crank_minper=03
tooth_wheel_twidth1=18
tooth_wheel_twidth2=48
cam_sync_r_edge_phase=01
cam_sync_f_edge_phase=02
reset_engphase_after=F0
It uses the primary_trigger = 01 value. Looking at global.h setting it to 11 means that you've selected N-1 trigger teeth, which I may be
Thanks heaps for the info!
I had noticed that I had N-1 selected in megatune a while ago, and changed it, I have a feeling it is one of those options that doesnt pass through properly to the config from megatune.
Tried removing the N-1 option, it was actually displaying correctly in megatune, I had overlooked it.
but no luck!!! I am absolutely stumped as to what is causing it, I even tried that correct setup from the M50 rob posted.
My only 2 options now seem to be
- firmware 1.1.18 is no good for my setup- something is awry with my hall sensor on 60-2 wheel setup. only thing I can think of here is that I am getting half the pulses that a VR sensor would generate, and this is causing the problem, but yet showing me absolutely no trigger errors!
could somebody confirm that 2000 is the correct RPM constant (from megatune) for a 60-2 setup on a 6 cylinder? thanks!
Yes, for a 6 cylinder the RPM constant should be 2000.
# rpmk[0]=07
# rpmk[1]=d0 # RPM constant for 6 cyl = 2000 (=0x07d0)
I checked your setup on the bench, and made a few changes.
http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMSConfigs/configForDButters.txt
http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMSConfigs/tablesForDButters.txt
Try these - no promises, it just looked to be working better.
Hi again Rob - thanks immensely for the setup, I will try it out shortly.
In the meantime I took a trigger log to confirm the hall was ok, and found some interesting Things:
I get the 58-2 signal after a rotation or 10, but the signal swaps bytes every while - any idea why that is?
I think this could be some part of my issue? although I would have thought that I should see it swap bytes every 2 rotations to explain my exact problem....
here is my formatted trigger log in text and excel form:
http://www.box.net/shared/urdz5s8xnl (http://www.box.net/shared/urdz5s8xnl)
http://www.box.net/shared/csk5k4dgpr (http://www.box.net/shared/csk5k4dgpr)
Thats not a clean looking log TBH, I've been re-reading this: http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=InputTrigger%2FTriggerLog this morning and it does suggest that you can have the Hall setup on the wrong edge - so try changing rising to falling. Theres also some info on wheel error display on that page - well worth looking at.
There does seem to be some good values in there, but then they turn to noise after a short time:
(http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMSConfigs/triggerLogDButters.PNG)
You will notice that one byte will turn to noise, and the other byte will get the good signal.
be aware that I didnt clip the leading or trailing noise on that file also.
seeing as I get no trigger errors, this is maybe something that the firmware can account for i.e. it just looks odd to us but it picks the correct byte when it goes to work out the events.
Anyway that would not explain running at half speed as during those good parts of the signal I should get a full 6 sparks per engine cycle, but i only get 3. RPM reports as ~190 on cranking which from what I can find appears correct for my slovenly engine :)
short of getting hold of a debugger and stepping through the firmware, I still cant explain why I only get 3 events instead of 6. Anyone here worked on the firmware lately? I did extensively a couple of years ago but long since forgotten it....
Thanks again for your help Rob, hope you found that trigger log interesting!
Its just been pointed out to me that ignchmax=05 on the configs I sent you and it should of course be ignchmax=02.
I will try your setup out tonight and see - but so long as I have the firing order (1,2,0) repeated it should not matter if ignchmax is 2 or 5, according to what I have read?
With h[2]=10 20 00 02 01 00 21 11 and Ign channel max = 5
It will fire: 00, 01 (No spark), 02 (No spark), 00, 20, 10
Well,
I tried Robs setup, to no avail, I still have ignition that doesnt fire each coil the second time until 360 degrees later.
I am beginning to think this is a firmware bug ,so I will go to 1.0.73 and see what happens.......
This may be obvious but I have spent so many weeks on this I am going nuts - could anyone tell me approx the time between sparks for a 6 cylinder at approx 190 RPM? I get a consistent 1-2-3-1-2-3 spark order with about 200-300ms between each spark on my VEMS driven coils, and from my factory distributor setup I get twice as many sparks in the same time.
looking at the release notes, does this look like something I need to change in my config?
# tooth_wheel_twidth1=18 # normal tooth width in quarterdegrees. decimal 24 quarterdegree that is 6 degrees (for 60-2 wheel)
# tooth_wheel_twidth2=00 # upper byte of normal tooth width
right now I have 00 and 00 for these according to your setup?
also are the release notes about the h[1] field accurate?
thanks again!
Those twidth values are not used at the moment, tend to zero out things that aren't used (things that are used but disabled get set to 255 (0xFF))
Thanks rob, is that also true for the h[1] table? the release notes say it needs to be filled, or is that only the case when a camsync is used?
Yes h[1] table needs to be setup for all 1.1.xx
I'd spend at least a few minutes trying 1.0.73 with a 60-2 wheel
OK Some progress!!
down graded to 1.0.73, and ign appears to fire at correct speed.... cant get her running though as the downgrade has made a mess of my tables.
I will spend some time bringing them into line manually and then hopefully get it running on wasted spark.
so the question is, what in my setup or the 1.1.18 firmware caused me to tear my hair out for the last month?
To be honest - I have no idea!
I have a number of cars running on 1.1.18 without a single problem.
But I'd not use it for missing tooth because 1.0.73 works perfectly well.
Hi again all,
I got curious with the new updates and tried updating form 1.0.78rc2 to 1.1.81.
Again I get no start - this time I checked the trigger log using the V3 function in latest vemstune - showed up perfect 58-2.
looking at some other peoples problems - http://195.159.109.134/vemsuk/forum/index.php/topic,1398.0.html (http://195.159.109.134/vemsuk/forum/index.php/topic,1398.0.html)
- I have updated the tooth width (which did not come through correctly in the upgrade) to 6
- I have updated the tooth reference table to 00 40 20
- It appears that I may also need to do the following:
- invert my ignition outputs (pin 33, 34, 35 to 35, 34, 33)
- change the number of ignition outputs to 6 instead of 3, and repeat the cycles in the ignition output and reference tooth tables?
If anyone cold confirm this it would be greatly appreciated, I have had the same issue trying to upgrade to an 1.1.xx firmware.
Quote from: DButters on October 06, 2010, 09:59:48 PM- invert my ignition outputs (pin 33, 34, 35 to 35, 34, 33)
Depends, if you're using regular passive coils with these ignition outputs like you are (wasted spark coil, right?). Then you should NOT invert the driver output, leave that disabled unless you want stuff to cook/fry.
Quote from: DButters on October 06, 2010, 09:59:48 PM- change the number of ignition outputs to 6 instead of 3, and repeat the cycles in the ignition output and reference tooth tables?
Exactly. Do it.
Quote from: mattias on October 07, 2010, 12:10:11 AM
Quote from: DButters on October 06, 2010, 09:59:48 PM- invert my ignition outputs (pin 33, 34, 35 to 35, 34, 33)
Depends, if you're using regular passive coils with these ignition outputs like you are (wasted spark coil, right?). Then you should NOT invert the driver output, leave that disabled unless you want stuff to cook/fry.
-- Sorry I meant reverse the order, not invert the output level which definitely would cook the coils. would reversing the order be correct? I would then set the outputs as pin 35, 34, 33, 35, 34, 33
And yes to confirm this is just a wasted spark setup, standard M30 BMW 60-2 trigger wheel with cherry hall effect sensor.
Yes, all tables are traversed in reverse due to letting programmers decide how things work in the beginning.
I can't tell you the order of your outputs, I have to know how the coils are wired and how your reference tooth table looks like to have a clue.
Regardless. If your ref tooth table is top to bottom : "0, 40, 20, 0, 40, 20 "
And your ign output table is "35, 34, 33, 35, 34, 33"
and the strobe light says that cyl 1+6 (which ever output that corresponds to) fires at TDC, then that output is in the right place in the ign output table. The other two outputs can only have two different patterns to get the correct firing order, either make adequate marks on the pulley to determine that or just try to fire up the engine, it will only run with the correct order and backfire/run bad with the other.
Quote from: mattias on October 10, 2010, 03:56:41 PMYes, all tables are traversed in reverse due to letting programmers decide how things work in the beginning.
I should have understood that being a programmer myself ;D
I hit the motor with a timing light and cylinder 1 was 120 degrees out, so thanks for the assistance, this has SOLVED it for anyone who might have similar issues:
- filling in new tooth reference table (00, 40, 20)
- changing order of ignition outputs (33, 34, 35 to 35, 33, 34)
now 1.1.81 firmware is running, looking forward to setting up the new acceleration system (which has previously been giving me problems with my combo of big injectors and ali flywheel)