VEMS Community Forum

Technical => Ignition => Topic started by: turborabbit77 on September 09, 2007, 01:04:46 AM

Title: Will vems fire 8 COP's on vw 3 or 4 wire coils?
Post by: turborabbit77 on September 09, 2007, 01:04:46 AM
I am running an AUdi v8 in my Quantum Syncro.. I have it setup originallyfor 034 engien management.. I want to use the VEMS ECU innstead.

Will the VEMS ECU trigger  factory audi 3 wire Coil on plugs  .. my other option is to run Audi 4 wire coils . Please let me know which one would work with the ECU and How i would go about hooking it up.

I know the wiring already  .. I just do not what ones will work with VEMS.. 
Both coils I have sitting here  Please let me know what i need to make it work.

3 wire coils
pin  1    = ECu ground trigger
pin  4a  = Ground
pin  15  = 12v

4 wire coils   
pin 1    =  12v
pin 2    =  ground
pin 3    =  trigger from ECU
pin 4    =  Valve cover ground
Title: Re: Will vems fire 8 COP's on vw 3 or 4 wire coils?
Post by: turborabbit77 on September 09, 2007, 04:26:08 AM
Does anyone know Lugnuts.. I thought i saw something that he confirmed the 4 wire coils worked on a car.. I just wanted to verify it was VEMS and wanted to see if any other modifications to the ECU needed to be done
Title: Re: Will vems fire 8 COP's on vw 3 or 4 wire coils?
Post by: dnb on September 09, 2007, 02:24:36 PM
I am using eight 034 coils with my VEMS on the TVR.   They are 3 pin (gnd, +12 and ECU trigger)

Just make sure you have a VEMS with 8 IGBT ignition drivers.  (that is, no FETs!)
Title: Re: Will vems fire 8 COP's on vw 3 or 4 wire coils?
Post by: turborabbit77 on September 09, 2007, 04:29:03 PM
I can i tell what the ECU drivers are in it..?    It is a used unit i was going to buy  it ran on wastespark before..  can i change the drivers if neccessary?
Title: Re: Will vems fire 8 COP's on vw 3 or 4 wire coils?
Post by: turborabbit77 on September 09, 2007, 04:31:15 PM
GenBoard v3.x Resources and Specifications

MCU: AtMega128

I a not sure how i can tell what drivers it has.. please let m eknow if there is someway i can tell i can tell

Title: Re: Will vems fire 8 COP's on vw 3 or 4 wire coils?
Post by: [email protected] on September 09, 2007, 07:02:46 PM
Unscrew the front plate of the unit and have a look to see how many rows of the Power transistors are populated.
Whats the serial number? If it was a system that was bought ready-made then I can ask the manufacturing team and find out what the spec was.

Cheers

Rob
Title: Re: Will vems fire 8 COP's on vw 3 or 4 wire coils?
Post by: turborabbit77 on September 09, 2007, 07:20:06 PM
if its not.. can i have it modified to work with the coils i have..  What would that cost to do so.   
Title: Re: Will vems fire 8 COP's on vw 3 or 4 wire coils?
Post by: [email protected] on September 09, 2007, 07:30:08 PM
All these things are possible.  What country are you in?
Title: Re: Will vems fire 8 COP's on vw 3 or 4 wire coils?
Post by: turborabbit77 on September 10, 2007, 12:20:23 AM
I am in the united states so i am not sure of people here who sell the parts i would need.. No number on teh ECu.. I got some pics though

(http://forum.vwsport.com/pics/data/500/medium/IMGA0324.JPG)

(http://forum.vwsport.com/pics/data/500/medium/IMGA0323.JPG)

(http://forum.vwsport.com/pics/data/500/medium/IMGA0325.JPG)

Hopefully that helps.. who in the united states can modify this for me if need be.. And what would it cost..       

Any idea what the jumper wire is for?

Title: Re: Will vems fire 8 COP's on vw 3 or 4 wire coils?
Post by: dnb on September 10, 2007, 12:44:34 AM
OK, the drivers are the black and silver things on the right hand side of the first 2 pics.  You have a full set, so I'd guess you have 8 coil "proper" drivers.  Without knowing the part numbers on them I can't say for sure.

Sequential v8 engines are fun :)
Title: Re: Will vems fire 8 COP's on vw 3 or 4 wire coils?
Post by: turborabbit77 on September 10, 2007, 01:17:01 AM
I am gettting the part numbers hopefully tonight..  of they are the correct drivers  i just have to hook them up to pin 3 of the of the 4 wire VW coils.. 

I ll post the numbers soon..  ANd the Red jumper wire  what is that used for?
Title: Re: Will vems fire 8 COP's on vw 3 or 4 wire coils?
Post by: turborabbit77 on September 10, 2007, 02:50:09 AM
he didnt get the right numbers yet.. I told him i need the 8 numbers on the ones hat have a black and metal/silver top on them correct?   ANy number i should look fo rin particualr..  He is trying again to get the correct number i need
Title: Re: Will vems fire 8 COP's on vw 3 or 4 wire coils?
Post by: turborabbit77 on September 10, 2007, 02:55:48 AM
here is what he got.. 2 or 3 numbers on each driver  he gaev them all to me.

silver driver top qty 8
top- n408ab
bottom- 14n4dfvl

black driver top qty 8
top-         80344
middle-     fqpf
bottom-    20n05l

ANy info you can give to what coil i would use on this ECU would be great and how to wire them..IF I can keep the COP's that i have please tell which one i can use

And help help with the setting woulbd be great too. 

Thanks Chris
Title: Re: Will vems fire 8 COP's on vw 3 or 4 wire coils?
Post by: [email protected] on September 10, 2007, 11:40:12 AM
The silver topped power transistors are IGBTs which we use for directly drive of coils.

The info you need can be found here:
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FPhatBob%2FUserGuide
Under the heading "Connecting Ignition Components"

Here is a suggested way of connecting the COPs
(http://www.phattransmissions.com/VEMSUserManual/ConnectingCoilOnPlug.png)

If you want to use the COPs with the transistor built-in you need those transistors removed, and a wire link put in their place.

Rob
Title: Re: Will vems fire 8 COP's on vw 3 or 4 wire coils?
Post by: turborabbit77 on September 10, 2007, 02:12:28 PM
So then.. I want to use the 3 wire VW coils... without the internal driver

Hooked up this way
pin 1 - trigger                 ECU
pin 4a - ground               constant ground
pin 15 -switched 12 v      5 amp fused power

NO different freom the factory wiring then.. any setting i have to change..

So pins 10,11,12,24,33,34,35,36  Are all of my coil connections.. is there a link to somewhere saying the pinouts for all o fmy wiring..

Do you guys any base map or base settings that should get me up and started.
I am new to this ECU..   SO i may just have to download a manual or some file to get me up and going.  Tahnks alot guys..    Aprerciate it.
Title: Re: Will vems fire 8 COP's on vw 3 or 4 wire coils?
Post by: turborabbit77 on September 10, 2007, 06:32:54 PM
It is a version 3.2 VEMS. I paid 200 for it  whcihc seemed like a godd deal to me..  Please give me any other info you can on how i hook up the coils to the drivers i have..  Thanks.
Title: Re: Will vems fire 8 COP's on vw 3 or 4 wire coils?
Post by: [email protected] on September 10, 2007, 08:35:57 PM
You've got the guide there, thats the manual as it stands.
A pin out exists at the end of the manual
(http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMSUserManual/ECConnectorsOut.png)

I have that as my wallpaper as I am constantly refering to it when working on VEMS installs
Title: Re: Will vems fire 8 COP's on vw 3 or 4 wire coils?
Post by: turborabbit77 on September 10, 2007, 08:40:59 PM
you guys are great..  best 200 Us dollars ive spen all year..        SO i dont even have to change any wiring in the ECU do i?  Almost a plug and play other then wiring and ECU programming.. I dont have to run additional circuits like i wouldhave to with megasquirt.. 

The 3.2 VEMS is the same pinout as the 3.3 unit isnt it
Title: Re: Will vems fire 8 COP's on vw 3 or 4 wire coils?
Post by: [email protected] on September 10, 2007, 08:46:38 PM
Pretty much the same, there may be differences that we need to address if you start trying to use the extended functionality but youre a long way off that.
The only thing VEMS has in common with MegaSquirt is that we use MegaTune, writing a tuning package is an immense task and the MT guys have done an excellent job.

Rob
Title: Re: Will vems fire 8 COP's on vw 3 or 4 wire coils?
Post by: turborabbit77 on September 10, 2007, 09:33:04 PM
Exactly i am far off from extending its uses.. but for now  It should work great

By the way this is teh car thats its in:

1987 VW Quantum  SYncro Wagon
Spec stage3+ clutch
Fidanza Aluminum Flywheel
ABH ADui 4.2L V8
STacked head gaskets
440 injectors.. may have to go bigger though
Was going to run a twin turbo setup.. now I am leaning towards a single turbo  T04S 60-1      Will be running around 15 PSi of boost    SHould make around 500 WTQ and around 600 WHP if the block can hold it.