figured there were enough new features to warrant a thread ;D
so i've uploaded 1.1.80 to the car, and its running well. However i can't seem to access the new injector angle settings which are supposed to be found in the motorsports menu?
vemtune is still saying my config is 1.1.77 - which i may believe relates to the ini file available
there doesn't seem to be a 1.1.80 ini file anywhere to be found
do these come with VT? or the firmware
most likely i just need to be patient and wait a few days for things to be sorted out. just anxious :P
According to http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=GenBoard%2FUnderDevelopment%2FFirmwareChanges
1.1.80 is experimental. TEST WITH CARE - and don't expect any of the standard ini files to work out the box with it.
Don´t you need to get the very latest Vemstune?
http://www.vems.hu/download/v3gui/VemsTune-Install-2010-07-19.exe
2 days old version
got the new VT - i watch the download page like a hawk :D
i'll just sit tight a few days
i say a few people on the wiki were running 80, so i figured it was set to go.
Ouch! Now we almost have individual trimming and injection phasing!!! "Almost" because I would not forecast bug free package..
I have also 01.01.1980 firmware in my car. But missing 1.1.80vemstune.ini. Hope it's ready soon. I have a 1980 Ascona B Rallycross with a 2.7 Volvo engine :)
This will be tried on a Volvo 2.7 litre N/A engine (250 hp in engine dyno) when it is ready. Very interesting work!
Got a promise from developers that they'll make a nightly build of vemstune today evening -including the new (experimental) 1.1.80 ini file.
:)
-edit:
Here it is:
http://www.vems.hu/download/v3/firmware/experimental/v3_firmware_1.1.80.zip (http://www.vems.hu/download/v3/firmware/experimental/v3_firmware_1.1.80.zip)
Base setup/Injector angle curve
From today 1.1.80 is accessible from firmware webtool from VT!
what is new on this one?
also do i need the 19/7 vemstune or the 30/7 vemstune nightly version?
Injection angle can now be set on cars with camsync.
[1.1.80] - release candidate
* easily configurable injection end-angle (angular position when the injector output switches off) in function of RPM
o mostly matters at low load loadsites with aggressive cam engines. With a port-injected audi 20-VT (with cyl1 injector output in same position as cyl1 ignition output) smoothest idle and best throttle-reaction was achieved around 300 ATDC = 420 BTDC (was not very sensitive to precise adjustment, a window of at least +-30 degrees)
o secondary-trigger need to be configured as cam-sync for inj-angle to work properly. Without camsync (eg. with a missing tooth wheel) after startup, the chance for the sweet half is 50% at best.
If you don't absolutely need the injection angle function I suggest to go back to 1.1.78.
There's a problem with TPS refreshing in 1.1.79 and 1.1.80, not a fatal problem in my experience, but sometimes it makes the engine jerking a bit.
just by loading the latest nightly version and 1.1.80, vemstune crashed after a couple of minutes.
should i be using the 19/7 version of vemstune?
anything happening with boost settings yet?
I'm running the 1.1.80 on a car, using the 8-11-2010 VemsTune.
The firmware is working well.
I might have used the 1.1.78 instead, but there was no default config for that version in the folder.
The VemsTune has many bugs, it is often slow or very slow to refresh screens.
Quote from: lezsi on August 03, 2010, 06:19:17 AM
If you don't absolutely need the injection angle function I suggest to go back to 1.1.78.
There's a problem with TPS refreshing in 1.1.79 and 1.1.80, not a fatal problem in my experience, but sometimes it makes the engine jerking a bit.
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FGergelyLezsak%2FFirmWare
Backs up your findings, I'm waiting until this is fixed in a later version. TPS refreshing would be an issue for me, is this going to be fixed in the next release?
Quote from: Jamo on August 19, 2010, 07:06:21 AM
Quote from: lezsi on August 03, 2010, 06:19:17 AM
If you don't absolutely need the injection angle function I suggest to go back to 1.1.78.
There's a problem with TPS refreshing in 1.1.79 and 1.1.80, not a fatal problem in my experience, but sometimes it makes the engine jerking a bit.
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FGergelyLezsak%2FFirmWare
Backs up your findings, I'm waiting until this is fixed in a later version. TPS refreshing would be an issue for me, is this going to be fixed in the next release?
in "new" 1.1.80 is tps problem fixed.
Ah good info, so the one in vemstune date 2nd August is the new one?
Notice 1.1.81 is available in vemstune now as well!
and how is it? knock works?
I had a strange issue, I'm not sure if it was the 1.1.80 firmware or not.
VemsTune 8-11-2010, 1.1.80 fw.
I uploaded the 1.1.80 to an ecu, and the MAP sensor would suddenly not respond to vacuum/pressure.
I put it back to 1.1.70 or 1.1.74, and the MAP sensor works again.
1.1.80 again, no response from the MAP......
install 1.1.74 - MAP works and I sent it out the door.
And I just sucessfully put the 1.1.80 on another car and tuned it for 2 days before that...
and that car is running well at the track today.
lugnuts : I noticed that too and it's fixed in 1.1.81.
The MAP sensor value was only updated with input from the primary trigger (engine running).
Not sure what it was but my engine wouldn't start with .81. Can't say I gave it a really solid effort to find the reason but I looked through the basics (well I could smell fuel out the pipe so I was mainly looking for ignition problems), everything seemed right. Reverted to .80, fired right up.
Quote from: mattias on August 21, 2010, 03:50:12 AM
lugnuts : I noticed that too and it's fixed in 1.1.81.
The MAP sensor value was only updated with input from the primary trigger (engine running).
- Thanks for the reply. That change was a big problem for me, I had just noticed it the day i was trying to send an ECU out the door. I changed the fw back and forth and ended up going back to 1.1.74 for that unit. Cost me a couple of hours.
- I notice that every new fw version brings new bugs. Is this unavoidable, or is it "tinkering"?
Quote from: lugnuts on September 02, 2010, 12:47:46 AM
Quote from: mattias on August 21, 2010, 03:50:12 AM
lugnuts : I noticed that too and it's fixed in 1.1.81.
The MAP sensor value was only updated with input from the primary trigger (engine running).
- Thanks for the reply. That change was a big problem for me, I had just noticed it the day i was trying to send an ECU out the door. I changed the fw back and forth and ended up going back to 1.1.74 for that unit. Cost me a couple of hours.
- I notice that every new fw version brings new bugs. Is this unavoidable, or is it "tinkering"?
IMO from my experience this is way of software, it's unavoidable no matter how hard you try. I did software testing and programming for living in my early years and the you find that code you thought was working correctly isn't actually until you write more new code!
In terms of Vems because a lot of features are continually been put into it, until it stablises on a version with no new features and one that concentrates on solely refinement of existing features it will be in this status.
*Feature request*
since 1.1.80 now has injection angle and individual injector trim, could there be a possible progression to perhaps replace the fixed injector trim per channel with an 8x8 table (injector channel x rpm x trim) This would satisfy my needs for siamease port injection :D Everything is there except for the RPM variable
A similar table for injection angle would wholey compliment the above and truelly turn VEMS into a versatile system Edit* what is there should actualy do the task as I think more about it :)
I do not care for the second wideband anymore, as I can simply use a Vems WBO2 round to display both Vems Gen3 aim lambda and the WBO2 round lambda on the one display ;) I think that it would be a rather neat solution to that which other shall not mention systems have to use :D
Quote from: Sprocket on September 02, 2010, 07:29:25 PM
*Feature request*
since 1.1.80 now has injection angle and individual injector trim, could there be a possible progression to perhaps replace the fixed injector trim per channel with an 8x8 table (injector channel x rpm x trim) This would satisfy my needs for siamease port injection :D Everything is there except for the RPM variable
A similar table for injection angle would wholey compliment the above and truelly turn VEMS into a versatile system Edit* what is there should actualy do the task as I think more about it :)
I do not care for the second wideband anymore, as I can simply use a Vems WBO2 round to display both Vems Gen3 aim lambda and the WBO2 round lambda on the one display ;) I think that it would be a rather neat solution to that which other shall not mention systems have to use :D
I'd love to able to use narrow and wideband input in parallel
has the ability to control boost with gear or speed depended been dropped on 1.1.80 and upwards? if so, why? is it because it can be adjusted through anytrim?
Both are in 1.1.81
yes, but on 1.1.74, when i pressed to use either, another plot came up. WHen i do that on 1.1.80 they dont come up at all. As if not allowed to specify values on a table.
Might be a vemstune issue as it's there in 1.1.74 as I was running that before upgrade
i used the one before the latest vemstune version (august 18 i think) and when i upload 1.1.74 firmware it does come up, but when i upload a 1.1.80 vemsconfig it doesnt!
you need to select 'gear dependant' in 'Boost Control PID Setup' this then activates the 'Gear Dependant refDC table'
that is excactly what i do. But the curve is not coming up.It only has: boost vs TPS/RPM and secondary PWM settings which i have disabled.
i reconfirmed it, once i open 1.1.70 and choose gear or speed depended boost, the tables come up. On 1.1.80, they do not.
i also updated vemstune as well, which i dont think makes a difference.Do others running 1.1.80 have this problem as well? is it a bug?
hasnt any of the developers noticed this???
You are right. I was looking at 1.1.81. Why not upgrade to that instead?
well, with the last vemstune i dont have any 1.1.81 config to start with. it only comes with 1.1.80. Where can i find a 1.1.81 to try it?
Just download the 1.1.81 firmware, upgrade to it and figure out if you have any missing settings. The new settings not in 1.1.80 are related to the secondary trigger, so check that out.
ok. thanks
sorry, this might seem silly to you guys, but...
i have downloaded the latest vemstune. I have downloaded extra the 1.1.81firmware. When i try to find a config with the 1.1.81 firmware, i am unable to do so. Also when i try to find a project with the 1.1.81 firmware, again im unsuccesful. What im trying to do is to find a config with 1.1.81 firmware, transfer all the identical settings from the 1.1.27 to it, set the rest manually and upgrade. BUT, all i can find as a starting point is the 1.1.80 config as latest. So...? where should i look? Vemstune does have the 1.1.81 firmware uploaded and installed. I dont have a config to start with though.
what is the difference between a vemsproject and a config? When i start a new project for example, it will allow me to choose 1.1.81, but i have to manually set all parameters(drag and drop does not work). Can a project become a config?
thanks
** On my second attempt, i couldnt save the project as a config, because it said that firmware is not available!! (but i do have 1.1.81 installed already!!) obviously im doing something wrong...
vasilis
Use the firmware web tool - download the firmwares that you want - Make sure its INSTALLED.
Connect your ECU to your laptop - Save configfile (Just File -> Save Config File) - Then firmware upload, and choose the firmware you would like to install (1.1.81) - When its done you'll be asked which configfile you want to upload, then just choose your saved config - Check that all settings seems fine and GO.
Dont forget to unplug all injector connectors, ignitioncoil connectors, fuses for fuelpump etc..
To clarify what Erik meant further..
The actual save process of the old config is automatically done when you commence the firmware upload process, a new .vemscfg file is created in the ECU directory where you have your "VEMS_files" (default is in "My documents\VEMS_files\YourECU-serialxx"). So you should not have to save the config, but it's a good thing to do this one time too many.
When the firmware upload is done, the old config will be uploaded and the missing values not found in your config will be taken from a default config included with the firmware files you downloaded with the web tools. Sometimes the config format is the same as an older firmware, this is obvious when you check the status line in VemsTune, the firmware version is always equal to or later/larger than the version of the configuration file format.
Regarding the injector angles, are the values you enter in Vemstune ATDC or BTDC?
Quote from: Jamo on September 14, 2010, 01:49:24 PM
Regarding the injector angles, are the values you enter in Vemstune ATDC or BTDC?
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=GenBoard/Manual/Config/InjectorTiming (http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=GenBoard/Manual/Config/InjectorTiming)
It's degreese of delay from the trigger tooth. So 500 is later in the engine cycle than 250.
I think everyone should try it out, it really makes a big difference!
Can you please explain or link to a writeup explaining how this works further? Like how to calculate this angle for benefit.
Thanks!
Quote from: Erikk on September 14, 2010, 01:59:44 PM
Quote from: Jamo on September 14, 2010, 01:49:24 PM
Regarding the injector angles, are the values you enter in Vemstune ATDC or BTDC?
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=GenBoard/Manual/Config/InjectorTiming (http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=GenBoard/Manual/Config/InjectorTiming)
It's degreese of delay from the trigger tooth. So 500 is later in the engine cycle than 250.
I think everyone should try it out, it really makes a big difference!
So in effect the angle is the cycles afters trigger tooth not TDC , assuming a 720 full cycle cycle for a full event then setting 300 is 300 degrees of the cycle after the hitting the 1st trigger tooth.
And the presumption i've seen from other threads is that 360 degree of the cycle is when the valve opens
Or am I wide of the mark here?
The missing Boost per Gear or Speed tables are related to the config file.
If you have the fw in an actual ecu, these tables will appear. then you can see them in that config file offline.
Quote from: Jamo on September 14, 2010, 04:32:33 PM
Quote from: Erikk on September 14, 2010, 01:59:44 PM
Quote from: Jamo on September 14, 2010, 01:49:24 PM
Regarding the injector angles, are the values you enter in Vemstune ATDC or BTDC?
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=GenBoard/Manual/Config/InjectorTiming (http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=GenBoard/Manual/Config/InjectorTiming)
It's degreese of delay from the trigger tooth. So 500 is later in the engine cycle than 250.
I think everyone should try it out, it really makes a big difference!
So in effect the angle is the cycles afters trigger tooth not TDC , assuming a 720 full cycle cycle for a full event then setting 300 is 300 degrees of the cycle after the hitting the 1st trigger tooth.
And the presumption i've seen from other threads is that 360 degree of the cycle is when the valve opens
Or am I wide of the mark here?
Its the injectors trigger tooth, everything depends on how you configure your injector outputs agains the trigger reference tooth table.
So putting 720 in the table should be like moving your injector outputs one step.
Quote from: Erikk on September 14, 2010, 07:16:58 PM
Its the injectors trigger tooth, everything depends on how you configure your injector outputs agains the trigger reference tooth table.
So putting 720 in the table should be like moving your injector outputs one step.
This is the bizarre default table I had from the upgrade. My friend has incremental RPM bins and 720, both of our engines work just fine. If 720 shifts injector by one, how can the engine even run? Shouldn't they all be 0 then?
Thanks!
(http://imgur.com/6wXZA.png)
I thought 720 is the same as having 0?
Weird, my table on upgrade didn't look like that!
Quote from: Jamo on September 14, 2010, 08:53:54 PM
I thought 720 is the same as having 0?
Weird, my table on upgrade didn't look like that!
True, that does make sense. I guess it starts at 720 so you can move it back not just forward? Would this add an extra revolution before the engine would start?
Quote from: BigD on September 14, 2010, 08:52:20 PM
Quote from: Erikk on September 14, 2010, 07:16:58 PM
Its the injectors trigger tooth, everything depends on how you configure your injector outputs agains the trigger reference tooth table.
So putting 720 in the table should be like moving your injector outputs one step.
This is the bizarre default table I had from the upgrade. My friend has incremental RPM bins and 720, both of our engines work just fine. If 720 shifts injector by one, how can the engine even run? Shouldn't they all be 0 then?
Thanks!
The defaults from an upgrade seems to be almost random from time to time.
Its not critical to inject fuel at the correct moment, the engine will still run..
Quote from: BigD on September 14, 2010, 09:03:45 PM
Quote from: Jamo on September 14, 2010, 08:53:54 PM
I thought 720 is the same as having 0?
Weird, my table on upgrade didn't look like that!
True, that does make sense. I guess it starts at 720 so you can move it back not just forward? Would this add an extra revolution before the engine would start?
It´s a delay function, put 0 to disable it - then its exactly like having an older firmware / you should start configurating it from 0.
Got it, thanks!
Quote from: Erikk on September 14, 2010, 07:16:58 PM
Its the injectors trigger tooth, everything depends on how you configure your injector outputs agains the trigger reference tooth table.
So putting 720 in the table should be like moving your injector outputs one step.
Hmm, didnt think that through i guess ;D.
180degrees must be like moving one injector output on a 4cyl.
So you´re right that 0 and 720 should be the same.
So if you fire a cylinders coil and injector at the "same time" and delaying the injector over 360degreese then its on the intake stroke again.
So it all depends on that you shoot them at the same time.
Does that seems a little more correct?
What changes happened to fueling in 1.1.81?
I haven't found any info, the firmwarechanges is all about triggering and the inj. angle stuff,
but two cars fueling (upgraded from 1.1.80 and 1.1.78) were off in my experiment.
Hi, i just upgraded to 1.1.81 and see that MAT/TPS enrichment setting. What must i change? 100 is no change 105 i.e . is richer and 97 is leaner?
does enyone else has any clue on injector angle and Audi 5 Cyl engines?
The numbers are %´s
so 100 is 100% or multiplication of 1.00
Check out the calc model gauge group, there you can see how all the math works.
is there any doc with explenation on the Acc enrichment? I need silly amounts of fuel to have it run somehow well!
What do you consider silly amounts?
With the old setup i had: 4 - 20 - 60 -80 and 0.1 - 0.2 - 0.3 - 0.5
With the new : 1 - 5 - 20 - 40 and 1 - 1.4 - 1.2 - 1
The newer engine has same injectors but is approx 300 ccm bigger and the turbine housing is bigger.
i installed to the new 1.1.81 now and i have it like this but it is still not right:
(http://www.s2forum.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=28402&d=1285105896)
Can you post up screenshots of your accelaration enrichment setup now,
You do realize that the scale is %´s of the req_fuel value
so 50% accel enrichment and req fuel of 5ms is 2.5ms
i have done this see page 4 last post.
This coresponds only to the acc enrichment and not the MAP/RPM enrichment doesnt it?
doing the math i calculated this for my car:
megatune:dv/dt: 2-14-42-64----> 0.2-0.4-0.7-1.0
acc cold multiplication%: 113
cold accel added amount: 2.2
I have req_fuel of 3.1
So should vemstune be:
acc. cold multiplication: 113%
cold added amount: 70%
then: 2-14-42-64------> 107-113-123-132 (%) calculated from req_fuel
How is the % of accel rpm vs amount calculated? Is that the % of the enrichment of the previous table on given rpm? So if i definitelly need for example the full amount of the above enrichments up to say 3000rpm i should have those bins with 100%?
anyone on this?
i played allot with accel and the most important thing is injection angle(cam sync). If you set correct inj angle throttle response is good.
i see, that is the newest feature of the 1.1.81, i understand. however there has to be something there on the accel enrichment scale though. Is my assumption correct?
if i would set 100% on all bins, does that mean that it is as if im using the total amount that i have already used in the previous table? ANd if i changed that value i actually use a percentage of the amount?
Hi, yesterday I've recieved my Genboard3.6 (sn:3287) + I recieved via email password for Vemstune too. Here is writen "Only use this feature if you really need it, because it requires experience" What it means ? Is necessary to use it or is here some danger to lock my unit ???? Thanks.
Note: I have 1.1.81 FW loaded already.
Don´t use it unless you have a reason to.