upgraded from 1.1.44 to 1.1.74 tonight,
BUT have had a few headaches,
VT didnt recognise the firmware or config currently on the ecu,
SO i have had to dload the config with MT, and then upload 1.1.74 with VT,
How do i upload the tables and config from the MT file?
have been going through page by page on two PC's, MT on one and VT and the ecu file on another,
I have uploaded the MT config and table files along with the VT file here:
Http://www.capriracing.co.uk/configs.zip
can some help out please?
also can some one check over the VT file that will be used as there are a lot of new things on there that im not sure what to set to...
The downloaded config + tables files you created using the old MegaTune script files can be cut and pasted into a single .vemscfg file. Use a good text editor like "Programmers Notepad" to avoid text formatting problems caused by Windows Notepad and the like.
http://www.pnotepad.org/download/
Then while connected to the upgraded 1.1.74 ECU, choose "Open Config" from the file menu and pick the "Upload config" button.
Later, you can drag and drop my config file (or any other config file) onto the dialogs, wherever you need new and sane settings. The new cranking and afterstart settings are well tested in my file, with gasoline on a BMW M20 engine.
I know, it's sad that 1.1.44 is not recognised even though it is a popular version.
tony,
I've been using V1.1.75 on my 4.6 v8 for a while, and just starting to get some good results.
If you want to take a look at my config, just ask and i'll email it over.
I am still getting to grips with all the new settings in the firmware, hoping to get some more tuning done today.
scott
scott the would be great if you could mate, thanks,
tony,
sure sent it to your email
scott
cheers scott,
just tried opening yours and it says descriptor file has not been found,
so i did the cut and paste thing, and that too says no desriptor file found,
do i need to be connected to the ecu to view these files due to this descriptor error?
tony,
use the web firmware dialog and dowload V1.1.75 then click re-install firmware, and it will be fine.
its under tools -firmware in the vemstune menus
scott
Oh my day gets better, why did i not leave the 1.1.44 version on the ecu and live with its starting probs etc,
now ecu wont talk to pc or laptop says no avr,
tried the paper clip trick and still nowt,
any other ideas on how to boot this back up?
want to put 1.1.44 back on for now as i know the car runs with it....
looks like i have VT talking to ecu again,
now for the time being how do i get 1.1.44 back on?
as its not lited in the firmware dlaod box in VT
and when you open MT it says the ini file is wrong etc..
tony,
you will need to get V1.1.44 from the vems wiki page and download it from there, as its not in the web firmware download.
then i think you can place it in the vemsproject folder where the other firmwares are, then you can use upload firmware choosing V1.1.44...then upload your previous configs.
scott
have sorted it,
thanks though mate,
back on 1.1.44 for now, and using MT for the time being,
think i will wait to here back from dave be fore i dabble anymore ;D
tony,
sure i understand taken me 6 months to get mine even drivable, so i know what it's like.
Very easy when you can see the cause of problems, frustrating when you cant.
Just taken me a week to find out, why my idle has only been 5degs of advance.
scott
got a strange one here guys,
took the car for a run tonight,
from startup she was running leaner than normal,
so took her for a run with datalog going,
what does the lambda target mean? is that what you should be be running and lambda is what it is running?
if so mines all screwed :-)
as im getting lambda target readings of 3.90 while driving :-(
at 6260rpm- lambda of 0.73 - lambda target reading 52.0
lambda target is the looked up thing from the lambda table. It sets the aim point for the mixture when EGO correction is running.
Make sure the lambda table is OK!
table seems to be the same mate nowt different there :-(
any ideas???
thats strange thought i would dload megalog viewer to view the datalog, and its gives me different data out come to what the vems log viewer does :-(
it also dont show the 50.2 lambda target at 6260rpm BUT shows duty cycle at 52.0
and target lambda at 0.875 and lambda at 0.730
do i take it that my vemslog viewer is coruptted?
have just done VE analyzer and the VE table has changed according to the megalog viewer.
will try it tomorrow.
think i need to get my arse in gear and get 1.1.74 and VT running on the ecu.
thing is im into race season and show season now and dont want the car out of action like last weekend :-[
also what should ego show? it stays at 100 and has the odd spaz and goes to 101-103
Don't tune old firmwares with VemsTune, upgrade them.
Some of the realtime data has had an increase in resolution, so the old firmwares report some things in an incompatible format.
tony,
I am sure there's some problems with V1.1.44 that why i stopped using it...
Although i cant remember that much something about lambda tables sticking.
Your ego correction should if your table is right show 100%, any deviation is the amount of correction in fueling from the lambda sensor is done by the ecu, so table needs tuning.
Still your best option is upgrade firmware & vemstune, and get it running.....
Just the learning curve is hard, and i'm still not over it yet.
good luck
scott
i agree scott since going to 1.1.44 i have had nothing but probs,
car ran fault free on 1.0.73 after rob sorted out a few config issues,
i will get the car onto 1.1.74 but at present like i said cant have it not drivable,
im reluctant to go racing this year on this firmware version as im not 100% happy with the hic cups its having, plus im not going to run the gas until its upgraded,
tony,
post up your latest config or vemslog, and someone might be able to help.
scott
Tony, I am a little confused as to which Log viewer you are using. I did point out to you a while back that 1.1.44 logs do not work with VemsLogger and that you have to use Megalog viewer instead.
ahhhhhhh right,
well im using megalog viewer any hows now,
i hope to end all these probs soon (i hope)
still not having any joy with upgrading,
i did what i was told regarding downloading programers note pad etc and copying old config into it,
but i gather i didnt do it right as the car still didnt want to know,
i can build the engines, and tune them, but do you think i can get them to start and run on a new firmware :-(
anyone else think they can help out someone who aint got a clue :-D
Can you not just connect your PC to the ECU with 1.1.44 and then run Vemstune, check the com port in vemstune and then select 'downloawd config' then upgrade the firmware, then upload the config you downloaded with vemstune? worked for me from 1.1.47.
For cranking enrichments, you need to make note of the pulse width cold and hot from 1.1.44. Then in the new firmware, set the cranking VE value as a percentage of your 'Required Fuel' value that will give you your old hot cranking pulse width. This will now represent a value of 100% in the cranking enrichment table.
The crank enrichement table can now be extrapolated with the value of 100% in the hot area (70*C and above). You now need to work out what the percentage value is that will give you the same pulse width as the old cold crank pulse width. Taking the old cold PW and divide it by the old warm PW, then multiply the result by 100, this will gove you the -40*C value. All other values could then be tuned to give a linier graph, basicaly duplicating what you already have in 1.1.44
If you really really really get stuck, send me a PM, and We can discuss it further. I can help a little more now that I have a little more time on my hands, now that im not going to get my engine back in the car for any events untill september, lol
hi sprocket,
i did the above first time round mate and things went screwy,
so gave up and reverted back to 1.1.44,
this would be ample if the kickback was cured and it had a shift light function :-D
tony,
This is what i did.
in version 1.1.44, i took a screen shot from the pc of each tab window, and saved them all, then printed them out on to paper with 4 on a page (under printer settings).
Then upload the version you want to use, then using the paper copies, manually change all the settings one by one. There maybe a few that are new, or different so these will take trial & error to set correctly.
But you should be able to make it fire & drive, by doing this, just takes time to do.
I now do this for each new firmware i upload...and save them for future reference.
Plus i can quickly see if anything has changed or been altered after config upload.
hope this helps.
scott
Cheers scott,
Im a bit reluctant to start playing to much as meant to be racing at the retro show this sunday coming with the guys from my v8 forum, BUT also really want the new firmware on before i race the car, catch 22 eh?
I may bring the ecu in from the car dload the config and msq to the pc and laptop
open the msq on the pc upload the new firmware from laptop and VT and upload the config if it allows (which i doubt as dont recognise it)
I recon im going to have to go through page by page cross ref from pc to laptop (1.1.44 to 1.1.74) to get it running on 1.1.74, fingers crossed its running before the weekend, unless anyones got a simpler way?
errrrr umm
can some one tell me how to upgrade the firmware on VT please???
i goto tools->firmware->firmware upload.
error screen comes up -> could not save config
click ok then a vemstune.exe error screen comes up and says:
vemstune.exe has stopped working,
a problem caused the program to stop working correctly,
windows will close the program and notify you if a solution is available.
any ideas???
i get gauge readings in VT,
but as its a 1.1.44 version i cant do anything else :-(
mmmmmm
will upload new firmware on the PC (xp)
but not on laptop (win7) with usb adapt.
when you run the program, do you right-click on the icon and select Run As Administrator ?
no mate,
that the problem?
just plugged the ecu into laptop now that the pc has upgraded it.
and its saying at bottom of laptop screen FW version 1.1.74 config version 1.1.69
so thats worked,
just need to transfere my msq from old firmware to this one :-(
and sort the flippin tables out :-(
just been sat here going over it screen by screen,
now got a thumping headache,
anyone fancy taking a quick peep to see how it looks?
see if theres something wrong anywhere etc???
things like:
in primary trigger settings:
first trigger tooth should that be 1 or 2??
Ignition Settings:
other:
Ign adjust - cold (0 deg C) what should this be? 0 Deg??
Ignition retard Clamp 0 deg????
Coil charge time map scale ??
Accel enrichments:
Fuel film calc factor mines 52 should i set it to 0?
Enlean downscale mines 26% set it to 0??
You should use the config in my signature to replace the settings you don't trust. Just drag'n'drop my .vemscfg over the dialogs where you don't trust the default settings.
I know for a fact that the default firmware files that are used to fill in the new settings have contained crap, for one the warmup enrichment table has been screwed up.
here is the config from VT (i hope)
firmware version 1.1.74
If someone wants to check what i have done,
wont be attemting to start the car until after work tomorrow.
http://www.v8forum.co.uk/ecu/VTfiles.zip
Here are just a few things I think could do with some revision. There may be reasons why they are set as such, that I am unaware of, but in my opinion could do with some alteration
Should advanced filtering in primary trigger settings be enabled? a standard 36-1 I would think not.
ignition dwell settings, coil charge time of 4.99? obviously I do not know what coils you are using but it feels a little high. Also, there is no voltage compensation (perhaps intentionaly due to the high charge time?). Voltage compensation would be a value of 1 in the coil charge time MAP scale. If its a value you have used and it works for you, thats fine. I know large amounts of nitrous and extreme rich mixtures that go with it, need a fat spark.
The difference between soft ignition cut and fuel cut is not great, no time for soft cut to fuction correctly before fuel cut, and soft cut range not great either? perhaps soft ignition start at 6000rpm control range of 200rpm with fuel cut at 6200rpm. an accelerating engine will over shoot 6000rpm quickly and go straight to fuel cut. soft cut warns you you are close to red line, while fuel cut actualy tells you you are at red line. However, I am not so sure any sort of fuel/ ignition cut is wise with Nitrous as ignition cut could give nitrous backfire and fuel cut could give a lean mix?
Ignition idle control, max advance and max retard, both could easily go to 5 degrees and threshold for IAC would then be better with 4. PID settings need to be tuned to give a steady idle though, maybe why the setteings are so tight?
wooooooooooo hooooooooooooooo
she is a running on 1.1.74 :-D
a bit rough though,
wont idle when cold, have to hold it on the pedal,
and when you rev it up feels like its missing then clears and revs again.
not sure if the stepper is working to be honest, worked ok on 1.1.44
i have a datalog here for cold start up to temp,
and then a hot start log.
if someone who knows what they are looking at could take a peep for me that would be great guys,
this should be it:
http://www.v8forum.co.uk/ecu/datalogv8.zip
i think the hot start one went weird as i have two for about the same time frame.
Looks like the engine needs more air or more advance to get the idle speed up. If you suspect the idle air valve is not functioning, you are probibly right. It might be as simple as the polarity being reversed. You should be able to see if the valve is moving the correct direction, by connecting a spare, or removing the original and watching it as you key off and then on again.
tony,
Somethings screwing with your EGO correcection also, its going from 80 -105%, everytime you press the accelator, maybe too much acceleration enrichment.
i am no expert just an observation, maybe someone else can comment.
Use convert vemslog to csv in the menu, then use megalog viewer to view your logs, makes much more sense when i see it there than in vemstune.
hope this helps
scott
well got the car running a bit better, still not idling correctly, but so we can go rqacing in the morning have reverted back to 1.1.44 for now,
ONE thing we noticed though, when i fired the car up on 1.1.44 it ran well sweet, then noticed forgot to plug the vac pipe in to the ecu, did that and would not idle kept stalling, similar to the probs on 1.1.74 but 1000% worse.
went through the settings again and the only thing different was i turned map load mulitplication on as a few of the tuners that have checked various datalogs and configs of mine have all said why is this turned off,
well turned it off again car idled and reved up crisp again, whats causing this? and could this be a possible problem on 1.1.74??????
at least i have the config saved for the 1.1.74 so the only annoying part is having to plug into the pc to upadate it again at a later date.
Switching map multiplication on will change the way the whole map is read. If it was tuned without MAP multiplication then leave it off for tomorrow, and worry about the MAP multiplication tuning later.
cheers Rob,
Quick update from the weekend,
car ran faultless all the way to pod and home (FW 1.1.44)
even burnt off a couple of cossies on the way ;-)
at pod did the normal burn out,
staged at the line, lights went green and nailed it, it launched like she has never launched before off the line, straight and hard, the whole car creaked, hit shift point, cogged it into second, loud bang from under car and it all started shaking like mad,
backed off mid track and cruised through top end with a 14.8 sec pass. which was good as the last part we were cruising :-)
when we got the car back to the pits we noticed the suspenssion mounts had sheared off the axle, the diff nose had rammed its self into the trans tunnel leaving a huge dent, and bent the axle locator bars, im pleased to say we now have shite loads of torque coming from the V8. and she hooks up spot on with no wheel spin.
checked timing ticket, best 60ft time we recorded was 2yrs ago with the 3.9 v8 and 150shot of gas which gave us a 1.8sec 60ft.
Sunday with the new 4.6 and with no gas we recorded a 1.9sec 60ft
i know its off topic but goes to show the 1.1.44 FW does work :-)
Maybe its the firmware, or maybe your tuning is getting better.
cheers mate, thanks for that :D
well while its quite i decided to rig up a stepper control valve loom here indoors and get another stepper housing and do some playing,
I was correct the stepper is not working,
when you power the vems the stepper goes out (air way shut) and stays there,
did a bit of playing tonight and now when you power the vems up the stepper goes out then comes back to the open airway position ;D as per the 1.1.44 firmware,
i found that by turning power off stepper after steps function to disabled it burst into life ::) 8)
hope to pop round to the car tomorrow after work and see if she will idle unaided on 1.1.74 now ;) ;)
its lives mwah.
sorry about that :-[
car started first flick and idled perfect at 1050 till warm then dropped to 900,
idled smooth while cold bit lumpy towards end of warm up then when cold start kicked off smooth again,#
and she will rev to a point then feel like its holding back,
if i get a log tomorrow evening could one of your good selves squint an eye over it to see if its something silly please?
here you go a datalog as promised along with the vems files.
http://www.capriracing.co.uk/vems/capri.zip
i thinks its too rich and its bogging,
but you guys will know what to look for ;)
Why is EGO correction down to 80%?
When in the log is it not revving up like it´s holding back? are you driving or in neutral when the engine is reving in the log.
no idea why ego is 80%
and yes stationary in neutral
first remove so much closed loop control, keep it at about 5% for the time being.
and take it for a spin and see how things are.
i gather you mean change the lean limit from 20 to 5% yeah,#
if so thats now done, will have to wait for tomorrow evening to try it.
thanks for that, anything else i shoul look at?
will that 20% lean limit be upsetting the revving? as in it seems to miss flutter when you floor it stationary
it shouldn´t unless your misfiring from to much fuel.
best to drive it a bit and see how that goes.
Where are you based ?
Based near Newbury, Berkshire mate
Ego is probably at 80% because the VE map, or the temperature compensation is wrong or the wrong temperature sensor curve(s) have been selected. This can be tested by tweaking the VE down a bit and double checking the temperature readings look sane. Check the log at the time when the thermostat opens and see if that is the right temperature. (not sure what stat you have - lots of different Rv8 ones out there.)
Quote from: Tony C on September 30, 2010, 09:17:00 PM
Based near Newbury, Berkshire mate
I´m in Marlow if you ever want the thing finalized and all these issues ironed out.
;)
ah not that far really from me then gunni,
dnb - temp compensation????
89C stat fitted,
what temp sensor you using dave? im using the stock rover efi one,
and have you your temp curve settings? as ours should be roughly the same if using the same sensor.
I'm using a standard Rover sensor. It isn't the same as the standard curve supplied with the firmware, so I'll send you what I use. (Unfortunately I haven't worked out how to patch it in with vemstune yet)
Temperature compensation is the table that is indexed with tps and iat.
ah right ok mate thanks,
also just halved the ve table,
compared what i had used on v1.1.74 with 1.1.44 and its was wayyyyyyyyyyyy out, had settings of 157 when it was only 52 on 1.1.44 ve table,
so have set the table near identical to the old firmware ve table, god knows what i was doing that night when i did that table :-(
willhopefully get the car running on the new ve table tomorrow and if weather holds will take for a quick spin up the road and do a log.
right car would not start today,
had to richen the table up again,
car now revs also, but it bogs when you pull away, think its giving to much when accelerating etc,
im new to VT as use to using MT, i have a log here if some one would not mind having a look and changing what needs changing if possible.
http://www.capriracing.co.uk/vems/capri2.zip
otherwise car seems to run smoother now even if a bit uneven on the run
Why don´t you just bring it over to me for tuning?
i would do mate,
but until its running a bit better im not risking it,
spent enough money on this engine this year so bit nervous about going to far till i know the ecu/fuelling etc are a bit better, i know im a worrier but after spending 4k on an engine then a further 1.6k due to some ones cock up i aint taking any chances :-(
I can always come to you for some initial setting up first.
bit of a trek mate,
would come to you to save your fuel,
once its running a bit better maybe we can sort that?
That´s what I do i travel to customers when they can´t travel to me.
once i get paid may give you a shout mate :-)
a couple of things,
took car for run tonight and had to lower the accel enr, as it was giving readings of .71 when you touched the throttle, i thinks its to lean now, but can work on that,
1: car runs a lot sweeter, although the table needs tweaking to suit, more mapping needed,
turned car off to get fuel, went to restart and had the most horrendous kickback ever, i have a 1.8kw gear reduc starter on the v8 and it stopped that dead,
once fired was fine started normal every time after,
in priming, crank after start crank ign adv i have turned it down from 12.00 deg to 5.00 deg, that sound ok?
also after start settings, what are the norms? mine are, cold 200 cycles,
warm 20 cycles.
2: idle control:
PID idle control: enabled or disabled?
Idle IGN Advance: enabled or disabled?
Stepper Idle Control: Min steps allowed? In Idle air reference position my lowest setting (70C) is 25,(REF STEP) should the min steps allowed be lower than this?
anyone?
can ran nice today, still a bit of shunting when the car slows down, have also noticed the idle takes ages to shut down from 2k to idle, never had the prob on old firmware, any ideas???
think i sussed the hanging throttle,
will need to do some more testing...