Hi guys thought better start a new post instead of taking over the 1.1.44 post in software,
Is there anyway i can test the map sensor to see if it has died?
as only getting about 14-16kpa while cranking,
also i have an external Accel DFI 1 BAR map sensor here,
but not sure how you wire it up,
on the box it says 74764,
on the sensor PART 12247561
on the terminal posts it says C B A
What is the map sensor offset and range currently? also what map sensor is fitted, built in or external?
range 250
offset 12.25
its internal on the board and is what ever comes on the board with ecu,
tony,
As far as i can see....the map sensor should read atmospheric pressure (14.5psi or 100kpa) when pipe is disconnected, otherwise gotta be a fault.
Could only get mine to read 89kpa, with the max 32kpa offset, so think mine is faulty.
But not been working on my car now for over 3 months as other priorities need srting first.
You can test it with a foot pump and good reading pressure gauge as 250kpa is about 36psi, so take 2 readings and compare the results.
Did mine and it works quite well......just my readings are also wrong.....
scott
its weird how mine ran ok last weekend scott,
parked it in the garage,
came out yesterday to drive it and now this,
i knew there was a fault when it didnt fire on first crank, as she fires and runs instantly from cold and hot,
the grief this ecu has given me in repairs in the past two years would of been cheaper to buy a new one ;D,
i just tried the pump idea on the map sensor before i go to work,
and no reading change just fluctuates between 14.8 and 15 kpa, with or without the pump connected,
Is it confirmed dead?
i changed the off set reading to max which was 37.5 (or there abouts) and it went up to 37.8 kpa
tony,
it's gotta be fubbard....you could check the connections inside the ecu...
make sure all the connections are sound and are hot glued in place....
Sure the info says they are 0.5% accurate.
Mine reads 89kpa with engine not running and 32kpa offset.
Dont' know the wiring side....best speak to dnb for more info
scott
yeah i have checked inside mate,
i found the pipe conection inside the ecu was undone, the locking collar that holds the pipe from the map to the pipe nipple on the case was half way down the pipe, retightened this up but made no difference,
mine usually sits at 99-100kpa with engine not running,
and 45-50 kpa with engine running,
Have sent Dave an email, asking if he would take a look to see whats wrong,
as he sorted the ignition prob out last October when it refused to start when we upgraded to wasted spark,
Frozen condensate? It could be easily to damage MAP sensor this way. It is wise to orient sensor inlet downwards.
Gints
Tony - it does look like you MAP is fubared. My guess is that it's not powering up properly - this could be a number of things. I can't understand why you seem to have all the bad luck with that car :(
What are timings looking like with the engine work etc? I'll try to line things up with that.
Seight - you can most likely make yours right by changing the "MAP sensor range" parameter.
hi Dave,
Looking like next weekend is my next spare slot at the workshop,
Has any one a spare ecu i can borrow till mines repaired?
As would like to drive the car to workshop, and run engine up after refit to make sure everything is ok before leaving the workshop in case theres any probs due to strip down and rebuild,
I have a spare ECU, but I think it only has 6 working inj channels. (will test and let you know) I doubt I can get anything done before next weekend.
As a temporary measure, assuming it is just a dead MAP sensor in your ECU how about you switch the ECU into AlphaN mode? This should allow you to drive the car to and from the workshop.
if you do have a spare ecu that would be very handy mate,
the car is due at a show easter monday and a race meeting in 3 weeks time,
so as long as i had a working ecu by then i dont mind waiting,
what needs doing to run alphaN mode?
as can try that if your ecu is only 6 inj channels,
Caprisport have offered to collect the car on a trailor this coming weekend, but we are back to sqaure one then we cant run the engine up to make sure every thing is fine before we leave the work shop.
if i have to start changing a lot of settings just to try and get her to run, would rather leave it and get the ecu repaired as i know it starts and runs on the button with current settings mate,
The ecu is boxed up and ready to be sent off if need be,
Right i hope the map sensor is dead now as just ordered one today from the vems shop.
ordered a 250kpa one same as whats on the board, (i hope)..
will this be ok up to 8psi of boost??
as got a paxton supercharger to fit middle/end of this year.
Any thing i need to know if i attempt to change the map sensor myself?
and will it need setting up???
250kpa = 150kpa gauge = 1.5bar boost
Or about 20psi
thank you gunni,
thats fine then as not going over 8psi of boost on the engine due to the comp ratio,
You should be able to sort the MAP sensor out yourself if you have a solder removing tool.
It will need setting up, but don't worry too much about that until you're aiming to do some proper tuning with the new engine.
It should handle 1 bar (14.7 PSI) of boost with a reasonable amount of headroom.
cheers dave, going to un bolt the map from the board once i have removed the silicone sealer around the nuts etc,
will then desolder the sensor ready for the new one,
i flippin hope this cures it,
btw did you check if you have 5v on pin 3 of map sensor?
errrrrrrr nope,
nobody said :D
which one is pin 3?
as can rig the ecu up in doors on a battery to test it,
Right had a look with test meter tonight and this is the results
all pins have 0 volt reading except these two:
(http://www.capriracing.co.uk/images/map.jpg)
is that correct?
and is that the right pin for the 5volt?
does this confirm a dead map?
and reading on laptop
(http://www.capriracing.co.uk/images/display.jpg)
Quote from: Tony C on March 09, 2010, 11:45:44 PM
does this confirm a dead map?
Not fully.
You can get 100% when 0.06V pin is desoldered (or cut). Then map sensor readings will be foating.
Shorted to 0V MT should show offset value from basic settings (10). Shorted to 5V MT should show offset+range (10+250=260). Then it means MAP is dead, board is good.
Gints
cut the 0.06v pin,
and conect it to one of the 0v pins?
then the 5.0 volt pin,
and read what it says in MT
or am i reading this wrong :D
Quote from: Tony C on March 10, 2010, 02:03:50 AM
cut the 0.06v pin,
and conect it to one of the 0v pins?
then the 5.0 volt pin,
and read what it says in MT
or am i reading this wrong :D
Almost right! :)
Not the leg of sensor, but pad of board. Leg at this time should be disconnected from board.
Ok will do this in a moment,
thanks for the help,
will report back,
looking at this pic:
(http://www.capriracing.co.uk/images/map.jpg)
if you short the pad to either of these 3 pins on the left the kpa gauge jumps erraticly,
if you short it to the pin between the 5 volt and the cut pin the kpa gauge reads 12.3kpa,
when you short the pad to the 5volt pin the gauge reads 261.8kpa
Left three pins are unused - erratic readings are expected.
Your board is OK, but Map - dead.
How about frozen moisture inside MAP? Could be?
Gints
possible, but if so first time its happened in 5 yrs :-(
the map is now off the board, them solder suckers are a nifty bit of kit aint they :D
will let you all know how it goes once the new map arrives,
whats the best thing to use for sealing the bolts etc to the board,
i removed some hard type silicone stuff, will normal silicone sealer be ok?
or do i need something special????
Hot melt glue is my weapon of choice.
I'm inclined to believe the frozen water idea. It's been pretty cold recently after all.
well i hope it aint gona be a common prob :( each winter,
will silicone sealer do for now until i can get a hot glue gun???
I wouldn't use any silicone sealer anywhere in a car, just because of the off-chance that it will pollute your wideband sensor.
If you're going to replace that MAP sensor - and you're going to use a Paxton - consider the 3bar sensor: http://shop.vems.hu/catalog/bare-sensor-p-141.html?osCsid=a575192e2768ed41ad489b81ca0cf49d
It has been a particularly cold winter, so its possible that there's moisture issues, saying that my Wife's boost sensor went on her 6 year old TDI so these parts can, and do, go wrong. I had a Greddy boost controller on a Nissan, that had inline filters fitted to catch oil and water vapour before it hit the sensor.
hi Rob,
Already ordered the 250kpa one,
But thanks for the link,
Would i benefit from using a filter on the map sensor line??? If so what size etc,
Parts should be here from vems today,
popped out and bought a glue gun on the way home from work to be safe instead of using the silicone,
No parts here yet, fingers crossed tomorrow or Friday, can then get the map fitted and fingers crossed run the car up,
In all honesty I don't know if it would help - yours is the first that I know of that has died.
If I could find the filter I'd take a photo of it.
Eitherway it might be an idea to blow out the vacuum tube with an airline or something - just in case its wet and the same thing happens again.
250KPA still gives you 1.5bar of boost to play with.
parts arrived today and thought to myself,
im going to have a go myself at fitting this, (oh no i hear you all cry)
soldered the sensor to the board god its delicate work aint it :(
powered it up and got a reading of 102.8kpa,
sucked and blew on the pipe and the gauge goes up and down ;D
quite pleased with myself now.
do i need to set the map sensor up at all????
250KPa sensor: offset 10.0 range 249.5
ta done that getting a reading of 100.5kpa now :-)
I use the BBC weather webpage to find the air pressure in my area and make doubly sure of the calibration ;)
how do you know if the calibration is correct mate?
as the pressure reading near me is:
Pressure: 1024mb, rising
It sounds close enough to me for getting the car to start and run. 1024mb = 102.4kPa
When we meet up for tuning we can test the calibration - there are special tools for calibrating pressure sensors, but you can do as well with a boost/vac gauge. It's not a case of simply changing the offset.
will be a while before we meet up mate :(
well for tunning anyways as the engine has an expensive repair bill as in £1500,
having to sell off spares etc to fund the repair bill,
Owch! What was the problem - thought it was nearly a new engine?
it was a new engine, but we had the pistons changed to high comp (4.0lt HC ones fitted to raise the ratio up)
the guys that did them fooked the rod ends up by over heating and two pins came loose and went on a journey back and forth across the bore,
i will let the following pictures explain what we found
Cylinder 8:
(http://www.v8forum.co.uk/images/badbore1.jpg)
Cylinder 4:
(http://www.v8forum.co.uk/images/badbore2.jpg)
Side 1 of piston 4,
(http://www.v8forum.co.uk/images/badbore3.jpg)
Side 2 of piston 4:
(http://www.v8forum.co.uk/images/badbore4.jpg)
This what happened to piston 8 when we removed it,
the pin fellout on its own, :(
(http://www.v8forum.co.uk/images/badbore5.jpg)
I have heard this sort of thing happen before.
What about honing the little ends and running the pins fully floating? Use an aluminium bush in the ends of the pins so they won't score the bores in this manor. I have been running fully floating pins with Teflon bushes in the pins and so far so good. I have steel rods with a bronze little end, but I know a few of the high HP/lbft turbo Mini guys use the standard rods with the honed little ends. It makes rebuilds a little easier :)
Hi Mate,
have another set of rods now,
the prob with the RV8 pistons are the pins are press fit not fully floating, and the pistons have no way of using clips.
On another note:
the engine should be on its way to V8Developments in Spalding in the next week or so,
blocks being done with a set of 8 tophat liners,
and the bottom end is going to be lightened and fully balanced :-)
cost is £1500 though :-(
But if Rob does it, then you can be sure it'll be right. :)
oh yes mate,
cant wait to get it back,
was going to mail you and ask if you could give the ecu a once over mate to make sure i have done the map sensor correct and make sure every thing is working, as i got no way of testing it all at the mo.
Happy to do that. When's the rough target date? I'll make sure I have it pencilled in to my diary.
The engine goes off to V8 Developments monday 29th March,
they want it for about 3-4 weeks,
so any time from now onwards till it comes back mate,
Hope to be racing on June 6th at classic ford show,
was going to try and get the new firmware sorted also for then so i could run a lot of gas and use the retard feature , but thats looking doubtful.
Plenty of time! Looks like the first weekend in may would be a good opportunity - will check for permission from the boss...
will let you know when the engine is back,
you want the ecu sent over?
I'm confident I can test all I need to on the ECU when I visit for the tuning. I'll bring my spare ECU too so there will be no chance of being stranded anywhere.
Unless you feel like having belt and braces? I'm happy either way.
im happy with what ever your happy with mate,