AE86 with 20V blacktop

[sly]

wiki page http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FGrantHendricks%2FToyotaCorolla

This car is going to use the stock trigger and need to look stock as possible.

which Firmware should I use for the stock 24 NE signal, 1 tooth G2 signal?

Is there a stock setup for a 20V I can start with? The wiring should be done today.
I would like to try to start today. but I do not know which FW I should be going with.
every thing is stock 20V but I am going to use the VEMS MAP

We installed the stock MAP too. but not wired into the ECU but the wires go so that can change.
the coils are 2 wasted GM active coils off a daewoo

[rob@vems.co.uk]

Personally I'd go with 1.1.18 for cranking tests, this one is set-up for 24+1 optical sensor:
http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMSInstalls/VemsMT1.1.18Nissan.zip

So that will speed up the testing, best of luck getting it to work.

I found the stock sensors to be around 145kpa.

If you're using the stock ITBs you need to use AlphaN/Speed Density blending - its not until around 3500-4000rpm that the MAP signal is clean enough to be useable.

[irishtwincam]

Something we never tried bob on the stock Vr that is.
What about unsplicing the common G- wire and running seperate shielded ground wires for the VR?
Im assuming here that the shared G- could cause noise between 24 and 1 tooth triggers?

[rob@vems.co.uk]

Something we never tried bob on the stock Vr that is.
What about unsplicing the common G- wire and running seperate shielded ground wires for the VR?
Im assuming here that the shared G- could cause noise between 24 and 1 tooth triggers?

I tried the stock 3S-GTE trigger off a car, noisy as hell (not as noisy as your 4A-GE one mind), got worse when I ran a coil through it.
Issues that I'm betting on are:
Sensor impedance - they start to act as an antenna.
Position of sensor in relation to ignition placing the sensors right by a large sparking gap.

Also you get belt-slop making the ignition scatter at low-rpm and advance/retard when the engine accelerates and decelerates.

There's a reason that Toyota themselves used a crank trigger on the South African Touring cars, but It's certainly worth experimenting with though, although I wouldn't attempt to run an engine on one myself.

[sly]

I will be using coilpacks so no spark on top of it. it looked very clean with the OEM ECU runing.
I ran sheiled wire like this. It is a shield and 2 wires inside. then plastic around that, they are 2 of them and they have a sheild around that.
all 3 sheilds only ground on the ecu side.
then in side wires one goes to the VR and the other to the common.

[rob@vems.co.uk]

If you have to go this route, and I quite understand why, then why not try it with the stock coil too?

Rob

[sly]

no room for a cap on the dizzy as it is pointing at the firewall.
can 1.1.18 do 14x16?
or is it best to stay with 12x12

[rob@vems.co.uk]

Get it running on 1.1.18 then try upgrading to one of the 1.1.5x releases.

[sly]

somthing seems wrong. it kinda runs and dies.
no trigger errors show up. but looking with a timming light it seems like the coil it not firing all the time.
on the bench spnning a same type dizzy with a drill I scoped the coil drivers and they look good.
I tryed entering 1/2 the dwell time and it seemed to have no affect. so I do not think it is a weak spark.
it might be the fuel is just way way off. we even went to batch to see if that would help.

and the WBO2 seem to read way low too. I did the cal with the 100ohm etc. but with I plug in the wbo2 it  seems to never read over  16 even if I set the cal to 0xff so I can't get the 20.1.
It might be a heater problem.??
any ways look at my config and see if there is anything that look way bad..

Code: [Select]

mcdprimep=00
primep_temp_scaling=00
cwl=00
cwh=10
cranking_thres=04
awev=41
awev_temp_scaling=0F
awec=C0
warmup_clt_range[0]=00
warmup_clt_range[1]=0D
warmup_clt_range[2]=21
warmup_clt_range[3]=37
warmup_clt_range[4]=4F
warmup_clt_range[5]=65
warmup_clt_range[6]=79
warmup_clt_range[7]=8C
warmup_clt_range[8]=A9
warmup_clt_range[9]=C8
warmup_clt[0]=B4
warmup_clt[1]=AC
warmup_clt[2]=A0
warmup_clt[3]=90
warmup_clt[4]=83
warmup_clt[5]=7E
warmup_clt[6]=78
warmup_clt[7]=70
warmup_clt[8]=6B
warmup_clt[9]=64
warmup_rpm_scale=BF
req_fuel=08
divider=01
alternate=10
injopen=00
battfac=13
kpafac=7E
kpaoffs=A4
injocfuel=2A
injrampup_battfac=FF
injpwm=FF
injpwmt=0F
als_launch_input=0C
rpmk[0]=0B
rpmk[1]=B8
tpsdot_kpadot_conf=00
tpsdotrate[0]=01
tpsdotrate[1]=05
tpsdotrate[2]=14
tpsdotrate[3]=28
tpsaq[0]=01
tpsaq[1]=04
tpsaq[2]=09
tpsaq[3]=11
als_cut_mintps=FF
tpsasync=02
acmult=C8
tpsacold=96
launch_enrich=00
launch_retard=00
overrun_fuelcut=FF
overrun_fuelresume=FF
rev_limit=50
airden_ignore=00
config11=31
config12=40
config13=02
batt_cal=BD
fastidle=C6
als_max_cut=00
dbaro=0C
tps_low=14
tps_high=B7
fan_temp=E1
fan_hyst=05
fan_channel=D6
iac_step_seq=C9
iac_conf=28
iac_max_steps=FF
iac_tps_thres=08
iac_cold_idle_temp=B4
iac_warm_idle_temp=C6
iac_cold_rpm=78
iac_warm_rpm=5F
iac_cold_start_pos=E6
iac_warm_start_pos=D9
iac_afterstart_rpm=0F
iac_afterstart_duration=96
iac_speed=03
iac_kp=00
iac_ki=00
iac_kd=00
launch_rpm=14
iac_integral_limit_dec=32
iac_integral_limit_inc=8C
iac_integral_deadband=14
iac_deadband=0A
als_cut_maxtps=00
iac_overclose_interval=05
iac_ref_pos[0]=BF
iac_ref_pos[1]=B3
iac_ref_pos[2]=A6
iac_ref_pos[3]=99
iac_ref_pos[4]=8C
iac_ref_pos[5]=80
iac_ref_pos[6]=73
iac_ref_pos[7]=66
iac_ref_pos[8]=59
iac_ref_pos[9]=00
iac_sol_channel=50
iac_ign_slope=20
softrpm_range=04
iac_ign_advance_limit=08
iac_ign_retard_limit=08
iac_ign_threshold=08
ego_conf=06
ego_lag=03
ego_coolant=B4
ego_maxtps=E6
ego_maxmap=FE
ego_minrpm=04
ego_maxrpm=55
ego_warmup=3C
ego_lean_limit=00
ego_rich_limit=00
ego_pid_kp=28
als_enrich=00
ego_delta=08
ego_target=19
ego_pid_window=FF
wbo2_warmup_ramp=A0
als_react_tps=00
wbo2_abs_limit=E4
wbo2_limit_maxt=A0
wbo2_fallback=B0
wbo2_retry_t=06
als_retard_rpm1=FF
als_retard_rpm2=FF
wbo2_ri_target=96
wbo2_nernstdc_target=89
wbo2_pump_pw_zero=65
wbo2_calibration=A8
wbo2_heater_pid_kp=46
wbo2_heater_pid_ki=10
wbo2_heater_pid_kd=1A
wbo2_heater_pid_ilimit=80
wbo2_pump_pid_kp=15
wbo2_pump_pid_ki=4E
wbo2_pump_pid_kd=00
wbo2_pump_pid_ilimit=84
wbo2_ri_confidence_scale=80
knock_conf=01
knock_sampling_window=FF
knock1_frequency=29
knock1_gain=3F
knock1_integrator=1F
knock2_frequency=29
knock2_gain=3F
knock2_integrator=1F
knock_threshold=FF
knock_noise_scale=FF
knock_max_retard=00
knock_default_retard=00
knock_retard_step=00
knock_retard_delay=00
knock_advance_step=00
knock_advance_delay=00
knock_minrpm=FF
knock_maxrpm=FF
ve_learn_coolant=D8
ve_learn_max_power=FF
ve_learn_rpm_scale=1E
ve_learn_kpa_scale=1E
ve_learn_ego_scale=43
ve_learn_min_weight=4D
ve_learn_speed=FF
ve_learn_limit=33
ve_learn_conf=00
lcd_c0=FE
lcd_delay=FF
lcd_backlight=FF
kpa_conf=21
als_igncut_rpm2=FF
als_retard_mintps=FF
als_retard_maxtps=00
lcd_default_view=00
primary_trigger=07
secondary_trigger=19
tooth_wheel=18
trigger_tooth=05
another_trigger_tooth=06
crank_minper=30
tooth_wheel_twidth1=78
tooth_wheel_twidth2=00
cam_sync_r_edge_phase=33
cam_sync_f_edge_phase=46
reset_engphase_after=40
ign_tdcdelay=60
ign_dwell14=27
ign_dwell6=13
ign_crank_advance=20
ign_out=70
ignchmax=03
engine_off_delay=04
pump_on_mintime=0B
fuelpump_channel=B6
inj_stage2_rate=FF
inj_stage2_start_tps=FF
inj_stage2_start_map=FE
als_igncut_rpm1=FF
als_deact_time=00
als_deact_egt=00
als_retard=00
als_rev_limit=40
misc1out_minrpm=2C
misc1out_maxrpm=FF
misc1out_mintps=00
misc1out_maxtps=FF
misc1out_minmap=00
misc1out_maxmap=FE
misc1out_channel=40
misc2out_minrpm=00
misc2out_maxrpm=FF
misc2out_mintps=00
misc2out_maxtps=FF
misc2out_minmap=00
misc2out_maxmap=FE
misc2out_channel=76
act_wot_rpm=FF
act_wot_channel=FF
act_rpm_rpm=00
act_rpm_channel=08
egt1_cal=47
als_tks_channel=FF
boost_conf=00
boost_targetoffs=00
boost_minpressure=FF
boost_pid_kp=20
boost_pid_ki=80
boost_pid_kd=01
boost_pid_ilimit=FF
boost_channel=5F
water_pump_temp=00
hybrid_rpm_a=00
hybrid_rpm_m=50
water_pump_hyst=00
water_pump_channel=FF
toothrel_normal=66
toothrel_missing=7F
fuelcut_min_kpa=0E
fuelcut_max_kpa=FF
tach_channel=46
tach_div=01
shiftcut_conf=01
shiftcut_channel=FF
shiftcut_time=00
softrpm_rpm=FF


[rob@vems.co.uk]

Are the datalogs showing a consistent RPM?

[sly]

I did not log it.... we took a small break to get a hour of sleep or so. we have had almost no sleep at all this week. to the point of starting to get dumb.. So I will log it as soon as I put it back. I did want to run it again on the bench after we made the changes in the car.

[sly]

OK I set reqFuel 4 and cranking to 4ms
might be too much but I got it to run a bit while logging had to hold the throdel open part way.

http://www.vems.hu/files/GrantHendricks/batch_4x4reqfuel.xls

[sly]

One major development:

We first noticed the engine would start up fine after messing with the priming pulse width, but once started, it would lope and barely run at all - almost like a car dieseling from after burn once the key is switched off.

Then we noticed the "pulses" of engine life when trying to idle matched up with the light from the timing gun.  So, the pops of the cylinders actually firing were in sync with the gun lighting up...we realized the coils must not be firing regularly.  This is weird because there are no sync errors coming from MegaTune.

Long story short, we now realize the V6 Toyota dizzy looks very similar to the 4age 20V one except the spiral on the 1 tooth out put is reversed.  So, the v6 dizzy looks to be rising edge, and the 4age one falling edge.  With the v6 dizzy hooked up to the car and powered by a drill, the spark timing is actually consistent.  But, when the drill is reversed, the spark out put looks like when the 20V dizzy is hooked up.  If we could some how reverse the polarity on one of the sensors, I think this car would actually run right now.  Since the ground is shared, this isn't an option. 

With a scope hooked up, it appears that we might be having the trigger one and trigger 2 overlapping, b/c the V6 signal does this when we spin it backwards (much like how the 20V dizzy works normally).

Let me know if any of this is unclear.     

[sly]

we had to punt on having this car ready for the drift event.
but now we are back I will fill in some more. After looking with the scope after the lm1815. It turns out the the coils will stop firing anytime both triggers do not line up.
let me say this again "stop firing anytime both triggers DO NOT LINE UP."
I thought the lining up was the problem. but it is the other way. I think all the talk of noisy trigger etc is bogus. The signal is perfect and Toyota did a very good job of having the home signal centered in between the ne pulses.   Now getting the home and the main wheel to line up is very hard. and just lengths of wire can change it so it stops working. The Hall in the Nissan I think is more repeatable over the RPM range. but the VRs move in relation to each other some, with RPM, capacitance on the wire, etc. So even if you can flip a vr so they line up all it takes is the phase of the moon to throw it outside the working window. even bending the wires going to the VR's might be all that is needed to move it outside the working window.

we may end up grinding off a tooth on the ne and only use that. but If I can rember how to get the firmware src I might take a look if I can make heads and tails out of the code I might be able to fix it. my last linux box that had all that stuff decided that the disk had not been fscked in a long time and went and did a fsck on a clean disk somhow destroying everything on the disk.

[PeepPaadam]

Why don't you want to install a proper crank trigger wheel, like 12-1 with 1GT101 sensor?