Author Topic: Converting to AlphaN (TPS vs RPM)  (Read 59257 times)

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Converting to AlphaN (TPS vs RPM)
« on: April 14, 2007, 01:11:39 pm »
For cars with ITBs, or extreme cams the Manifold Air Pressure (MAP) cannot be relied upon to give a good signal - the resolution is poor and the pressures fluctate wildly.  So its common practice to run setups like this as AlphaN where the Throttle Postion Sensor (TPS) is used instead of the MAP sensor, this gives very sharp throttle response and smooth running.

AlphaN is a pain to setup, so for this reason VEMS ecus tend to be supplied using Speed Density MAP sensor to make starting the car and initial tests easier.  So once you have everything setup and the car idling you can change to AlphaN using the following steps:
(Remember to save your configuration before you start so that you can return to working settings).

In MegaTune select Alpha-N/Speed-density blending:

And you will get the following screen on early releases

Of this screen on the later releases


for max RPM for Alpha-N (rpm) enter 25500
and min RPM for Speed Density (rpm) entere 25500
If you have MAP(load) multiplication ensure that it is set to Disabled

Once you've set these values take a look at the main screen - you will see that the MAP gauge reads 0.0 kPa.
Press the throttle down and MAP will rise to 255 as Throttle Position goes from 0 to 100%.
If you do not get the full range on the TPS then you will need to check the TPS calibration.

Now we need to change the Maps go to: Settings->VE Table and fill the kPa settings with the following values starting from the bottom cell: 0, 2, 5, 12, 23, 35, 53, 75, 115, 165, 225, 255

Make sure that you burn the change to VEMS by using File->Burn To ECU In the VE Table window.

To help you keep the car running (as ITBs tend to have terrible IACV control) its not a bad idea to put a "kick" up in the Ignition advance down at the lowest Load and RPM cell.  In Settings->Spark Table Put a value of about 30 down on 0kPa and the lowest RPM cell.
When your engine goes to stall it will get a sudden advance which will catch the stall and cause the engine to rev.

Once your VEMS is better calibrated it is possible to remove the Ignition Kick, and use the Ignition based advance which gives a similar function but is better controlled.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2007, 07:40:45 pm by rob@vems.co.uk »

Offline Denmark

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Re: Converting to AlphaN (TPS vs RPM)
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2007, 09:56:42 pm »
Okay,

Great info, as i have newer seen anyone run alphaN,

Looking forward to info regarding boosted itb´s, alphaN with Map  :)


/Skassa
working on the boxer

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: Converting to AlphaN (TPS vs RPM)
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2007, 10:17:15 pm »
Paz runs it with his 16V 4A-GE ;D
Along with a couple of other ITB'ed 4A-GEs and a few Hondas.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2007, 07:42:37 pm by rob@vems.co.uk »

Offline Tony C

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Re: Converting to AlphaN (TPS vs RPM)
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2007, 06:00:26 pm »
do you need to disable map load multiplication in the constant screen too????
settings->constants

Vems Ecu, Twin Plenum efi and N2o
13.314 @ 104.39 mph (10/06/07 3.9 v8)
Sponsored by: www.caprisport.com & www.interpart.biz
Web site: http://www.capriracing.co.uk

Vems Firmware: V1.1.74

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: Converting to AlphaN (TPS vs RPM)
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2007, 08:08:45 pm »
Yes its the same setting, and should be the same value as set in the AlphaN window.

Offline dnb

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Re: Converting to AlphaN (TPS vs RPM)
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2007, 11:04:52 am »
This is a right pain to do you know...  Hope it's worth while ;)

I am having the odd difficulty with lambda not being stable, but I'm wondering if this is because the map is a long way wrong in places.

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: Converting to AlphaN (TPS vs RPM)
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2007, 01:26:27 pm »
We found with the Corollas that its a load more to setup, but once its running nicely the response is so much nicer.

Offline Tony C

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Re: Converting to AlphaN (TPS vs RPM)
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2007, 06:47:44 pm »
i gave up in the end and went back to kpa/rpm,

Vems Ecu, Twin Plenum efi and N2o
13.314 @ 104.39 mph (10/06/07 3.9 v8)
Sponsored by: www.caprisport.com & www.interpart.biz
Web site: http://www.capriracing.co.uk

Vems Firmware: V1.1.74

Offline miniminor63

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Re: Converting to AlphaN (TPS vs RPM)
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2007, 08:00:45 pm »
thats not good news, I think mine will have to run AlphaN, and would like to get it running before going on the rollers... Oh well, we will at least try, maybe I am lucky!

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: Converting to AlphaN (TPS vs RPM)
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2007, 09:09:33 am »
It takes time to get AlphaN setup nicely, you will have to completely remap everything including changing the breakpoints, one trick for an even idle is to put an RPM point 200rpm eitherside of your idle rpm - so if your target idle speed is 950 your points go: 750, 950, 1150.

Another trick to keep the engine alive when you're tuning it is to put an advance kick in the ignition table at the lowest RPM cells, we did this on Paz's car so that I could tune the idle to allow him to break in his cams on a completely blank AlphaN map.  Paz has a 45degree advance spike at ~600rpm on 0% throttle now as he's not too bothered about tuning part of the map he seldom uses.

Offline miniminor63

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Re: Converting to AlphaN (TPS vs RPM)
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2007, 09:16:17 am »
Good point about cam bedding. That is a point I have thought about. My Twin-cam head has new reground cams in it and I would like to keep the engine around 2000 rpm for 15-20 minutes to bed them in properly. I have a feeling this could be very difficult as I am sure to have some troubles getting it to run that long the first time it starts....

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: Converting to AlphaN (TPS vs RPM)
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2007, 09:30:06 am »
well one way I've had of getting an engine to run without load, easily is to mess around with the cranking and afterstart values, by putting the Cranking threshold at 2500 the ECU never considers the engine to be running and holds advance at 10deg and scales the fuel based on the Crank Cold and Crank Warm PW values.  I'm sure we can rustle up some fair guesses for what the PWs would be.

Offline miniminor63

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Re: Converting to AlphaN (TPS vs RPM)
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2007, 09:42:29 am »
Sounds doable then! Good. Will come back to this when everything is ready. (May be a while yet)

Offline dnb

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Re: Converting to AlphaN (TPS vs RPM)
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2007, 12:07:58 pm »
I had another go at alphaN last night.  It was considerably better, but still nothing like as smooth as SD.  Lambda control seems to be unable to cope properly with the large AFR excursions presumably caused when the idle controller changes the amount of air entering the engine.

I didn't want to risk this setup on the road without a co-pilot, so I'll leave it for the moment until I get some time spare on some rollers somewhere... 

The speed density map is now quite well refined, and almost allows the car to do 30mph without emulating a kangaroo... 

BTW are there any software updates about negative acceleration in the pipeline - like fuel cut and resume that don't result in lurches?  (Is that just my fault for having too many CCs?)


Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: Converting to AlphaN (TPS vs RPM)
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2007, 01:05:54 pm »
It takes time to smooth and refine it, SD does so much in the way of correction and smoothing.