R33 RB25 with VEMS 3.3 and Adapter Harness

[irishtwincam]

Idling tidy!
But wait, why for is it that the car is cutting out and the EVC keeps dying?


Stupid alarms! Carrying too much current for the flimsy relay!


This is the flimsy so and so.
For the record, tapping on the alarm casing caused the cutout to a lesser degree.


Heres a more traditional schematic for this kind of 5 wire relay.

[irishtwincam]

Did the wires for the WBO2 today.
The power wire is dangling and, well, unpowered for now.

Bob, remember that wire4/4pin from the RB25 plug, is that meant to be fused and plugged intot WBO2 power feed?
If not, what is the 4 wire plug for, and should we have one??

I left the WBO2 wiring long enough that there should be slack with wbo2 threaded in,
plug pulled through bulkhead grommet and EC36 to WBO2 camble hooked up.
Could do with a quality asurance check from you before risking the WBO2.

Then we can datalog and get some infos

[rob@vems.co.uk]

Use the ECCS relay in pin for the power, theres two at the far end of the plug.  And use a 5A fuse.

I didn't answer you the other day because I have swine flu.

[irishtwincam]

I thought it was just a complete lack of moral fibre?   

Get well soon mate

[rob@vems.co.uk]

I initially thought that it was a lack of moral fibre - until last night when I wasn't sure if I'd see the morning...

I guess it is a lack of moral fibre - and one that Tamiflu will help resolve!

[irishtwincam]

<GeordieAccent>
Day 4 in the Bob Flu household.
Bob is unwell...
</GeordieAccent>

[irishtwincam]

Car stopped running, as suspected the iridium tips were covered in black from running too rich during cold starts.

Bores were airlined to clear out excess fuel.
Cleaned the plugs off and the car started running again.

Currently doesnt sound as if its running on all 6 so need to verify spark from all coil pairs.
Loom isnt secured, nor is ECU so something might have come loose.

[irishtwincam]

Hi Guys,

this problem is preventing the car from being brought to Gunnar for final mapping

The electrical power on this R33 single turbo keeps cutting out.
It was aggrevated by the bodged alarm install as evidenced by this video.

You can see how the car cuts out and keeps running due to the bodged alarm.
This problem is STILL happening even though the alarm has been removed by a qualified autoelectrician.


Watch the last 10-15 seconds of this clip to see the intermittent cutout.
You can see the EBC in the bottom left lose power and beep as it resets.
The car stumbles and keeps running.
This is the same symptom as the first video.


However since the alarm has been removed it is STILL cutting out in the same fashion.
There are 3 relays clicking which raise concerns.

1) The blue relay by the battery is clicking intermittently, this does not affect the engine running. What is this battery side relay for?


2) Both relays by the ECU in the passenger footwell click at the same time the electrical power cuts out and the engine stumbles. One relay has a thick red wire going in, the other has lighter wires. What are these two relays for?


3)
What is the metal by the boot box that looks like some sort of resistor or relay?

[gunni]

Is the power to the VEMS being cut and it dying because of that? you can verify that in the log.
Or are some other relays being cut and the injectors are cutting out and it´s dying because of that?
Again seen in the log as rpm going down but still power to the vems.


That grey thing is probably the injector resistor pack.

[irishtwincam]

Alarm and immobiliser removed. Lots of bad wiring apparently, things twisted and taped, not soldered
Job undertaken by professional autoelectrician Im told, the removal that is.
Problem still present.

Cheers for tip Gunnar,
Ill do a datalog from startup and video the computer screen at the same time.
If VEMS cuts out and cuts back in then Id assume the datalog will cutout.

I suspect there is a live grounding out and causing IGN live to konk out as evidenced by the boost controller going blank.
In that case VEMS would be cutting out too, and I "think" the last day this happened I ahd the laptop pluged in and got the re/startup beep from Megatune.

Anyway Ill confirm soon with datalog and video.
Also running copper plugs to ease startup now



Responses from Skyline owners on Driftworks

Hexham_Scotty
The blue one in the boot is fuel pump, the large one above (silver box) not sure but I think it is some kind of aerial booster (should not affect running of car, have removed them before)
The two next to the ecu, one gives power to the ign system the other the injectors, thay are controled through the ecu,
if they are clicking as it dies they will be loosing power or earth before the ecu.
They dont normaly give problems.
The fuel pump one clicks in and out normaly so wouldnt worry about that one.
I would check all the earths are good as a starting point, especialy the large one on the drivers side chassis rail in the engine compatment (had loads of them come loose and cause all sorts of problems)


orange_beastie
Your fuel pump relay clicks so you dont have a high pressure on tickover and over fuel the car.
Personally id have the dash out and check every single wire and double check all the earths also take off the
terminals on the battery and clean them up and were the earth lead (black one) on battery connects to the
body undo the two nuts and clean that up.
And replace the black relay that you were hitting in the first vid.
Then check the wiring on the ecu plug just incase anything is loose there...


KINGCRAB
I had a similar problem to this with a mates car, went over all the wiring checked earths etc and sill never found it.
It would start up for about 3 secs then cut off-so hard wired the fuel pump and it worked but it over fueled on
tickover when the revs drop suddenly

So the fuel relay must control high/low voltage then yes, any idea the of the drop?

____

I wonder if VEMS is controlling the fuel pump, whats controlling the fuel pump cutting in and out?
Could it be nosie/flyback from the pump along the fuel pump relay wire causing VEMS to cutout?
Could wiring the pump to 12v constant help?

R33 Body loom schematic for diagnostics.

[rob@vems.co.uk]

Yes VEMS controls the fuel pump: Primes it on start-up, Holds it on while the trigger signal is received, holds on for a configurable amount of time after the trigger signal stops.
So the fuel pump should be on and stay on even if the RPM drops.
Next is the ECCS relay, that should be on when the VEMS is alive, it is worth putting a meter on the thing to ensure that the power is not being cut.
I'm back from flu and holiday so I can roll over one evening if needed.

[irishtwincam]

Cheers Bob,

Video and datalog currently uploading....will post again when done.

Yes I wondered why the FP relay would click when VEMS obviously keeps it going.
The relay clicks even without the engine sputtering.
I guess its bad wiring from a botched alarm/immob install, unless some Nissan subsystem uses fuel pressure/rpm to switch the pump?
Load sense perhaps?

I very much doubt there is such a subsystem, and as such the clicking relay indicates bad body wiring.


The video looks like VEMS is staying up when the cutout happens, again suggesting the problem
is bad body wiring freaking out those relays. Perhaps 12v on a common earth?

[irishtwincam]

Video timeline
0.13  Ignition on
0.30  Start Datalog with ignition live (0 seconds in datalog)
0.47  Start Car (17seconds into datalog)
1.25  Cutout happens (38seconds into datalog)
1.40  Cutout happens (43 seconds into datalog)
2.19  Cutout happens (1.22 into datalog)

You can use these chronological offsets to interpret the Datalog.
Startup is visible as a drop in voltage when cranking.
Videos still uploading.

Note: VemsLogger locked my CPU at 99% useage for the past 4 minutes....?
I got a CPU temp warning which is unusual and alerted me to its processor hogging.
What is happening at 107seconds into the log. The green ilne climbs but none of the numbers on the logger correspond?



http://www.skynet.ie/~eireae86/Skyline_DataLog_datalog200908241723.zip

[rob@vems.co.uk]

Strange, the things that happen on the datalog with the dips in RPM show the ECU working properly and responding to the RPM change.
It might be an idea to identify which relay is dropping out, and then to bridge the switch (take the relay out and stick a bit of wire across the switch's plug holes.

[irishtwincam]

Saw that, at least it shows its most liekly a body loom issue as suspected!