Several Wiring Questions

[Sanjuro]

Agree: self made 60-2 can cause problems.
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=InputTrigger%2FMultitoothProblem
At same time code can calculate advance from last possible tooth. It is reason to use more teeth.

camsync and tooth at one time is no problem as long as it is not match your defined trigger tooth.

Second WBO2 FET is like nick name of FET. It can be used for switching an additional devices, but as I understand hardware is too week to handle two WBO2 - no free PWM channels or something like that... And no software of course.

I see, and from what I can tell by the wiki v3.3 solved the signal issue with 60-2 wheels... I made a mod to my wheel just to see what would happen.  Hopefully I can post some scope traces tomorrow so we have something definitive.

Second WBO2 FET is like nick name of FET. It can be used for switching an additional devices, but as I understand hardware is too week to handle two WBO2 - no free PWM channels or something like that... And no software of course.

I have often said that there should be less of the "theoretical" features of the unit on the webshop page: second wideband, ibutton interface and so on, but they have a problem disassociating what the hardware offers and what the software enables.

Sigh that's too bad, I guess I'll leave the O2 bungs there just in case someday someone puts the software together.

[z0tya]

You write for me this, or the 60-2? (Sorry, I am not really understand)

Maybe Rob think, that the big gap would be not as deep as normal gap.

That sort of gap cleans up the noise in the missing teeth.  But if you're making your own trigger why mess around cutting double the number of teeth that you actually have to?

[[email protected]]

You write for me this, or the 60-2? (Sorry, I am not really understand)

I wrote that about the 60-2

[[email protected]]

I see, and from what I can tell by the wiki v3.3 solved the signal issue with 60-2 wheels... I made a mod to my wheel just to see what would happen.  Hopefully I can post some scope traces tomorrow so we have something definitive.

I salute you for trying, and it might work fine for you.

BTW you know that you don't need cam sync to run COPs?

[Sanjuro]

I see, and from what I can tell by the wiki v3.3 solved the signal issue with 60-2 wheels... I made a mod to my wheel just to see what would happen.  Hopefully I can post some scope traces tomorrow so we have something definitive.

I salute you for trying, and it might work fine for you.

BTW you know that you don't need cam sync to run COPs?

I hope so too :)  Yeah I figured I can run wasted spark COP in the beginning, but since I have camsync I might as well use it...

[Sanjuro]

Alright guys, I got the thing finished and scoped:





Rob you are right, we do get this funny spike even though I raised the missing tooth gap.  Hopefully like the wiki said v3.3+ hardware can handle it:



As it turns out, all I had to do was slope the gap...  next time!

[[email protected]]

The thing you need to watch for is not the voltage spikes the LM1815 chip doesnt trigger on peaks it triggers on the point where the signal crosses zero.  With 60-2 we have seen the 'zero' point rise above 0v, so what actually happens is that the point at which the crank trigger voltage falls below 0v changes.  The result is that you can end up with the ignition timing being different on one side of the wheel to the other.  One 60-2 someone posted was so bad that the trigger signal just stopped working over a certain RPM.  Athough that was a bad, out of round, home made trigger wheel from what I could see.

If you take a look at the modern 60-2 wheels you'll see that the teeth and gaps are only a few millimeters high, and the missing "tooth" is actually a very long tooth rather than a very long gap, so the trigger material stays close to the VR sensor - this way if any noise gets into the sensor circuit it just adds to the peak voltage, rather than causing a negative voltage to go high (which can cause a false trigger if the noise spike is high enough to take the voltage over 0v).

Early Renault triggers seemed to take the voltage spike out but having a solid tooth as long as the missing tooth gap, with this the ECU sees just two very long gaps and runs happily.

[GintsK]

Especialy I had problems with small diameter 60-2. Teeth are close each other except missing part which then cause a huge signal without zero crossing .
It is good idea to use Hall sensors for small ones.

e.g. BMW have two modifications of small 60-2. With hall missing gap is like on drawing above. But when VR sensor used - filled more than half of depth.

[[email protected]]

As it turns out, all I had to do was slope the gap...  next time!

Or have a massive tooth rather than a gap.
Next time a 36-1 or have 3 teeth and use a cam sync ;)

Good work on publishing the results there.

[Denmark]

how did the triggerwheel end up looking like, if you changed the design in the gab?

I alctully have a bit of cranking trigger errors on one of the older impreza´s i made ,that is even with the 36-1 wheel i made,but that is also rather small ,around 80mm in diameter,and the gab is just a missing tooth,so i was thinking if that would benefit froma raised gab also??

/skassa

[Sanjuro]

how did the triggerwheel end up looking like, if you changed the design in the gab?

I alctully have a bit of cranking trigger errors on one of the older impreza´s i made ,that is even with the 36-1 wheel i made,but that is also rather small ,around 80mm in diameter,and the gab is just a missing tooth,so i was thinking if that would benefit froma raised gab also??

/skassa

The design that produced the scope trace is in reply #20, basically the missing tooth gap is 1/2 the height of all the other gaps.

As it turns out, all I had to do was slope the gap...  next time!

Or have a massive tooth rather than a gap.
Next time a 36-1 or have 3 teeth and use a cam sync ;)

Good work on publishing the results there.

Now I'm actually quite curious as to what the giant "tooth" would do.  I updated the drawings to have the gap at 1/2 their previous depth and a missing gap instead of a missing teeth.  Going to make this tomorrow and scope it.



I guess I should note that the last scope trace was made @~147rpm.  The lathe would only go to ~3000rpm, otherwise it would be interesting to see what happens at high rpms.  Regardless, I will re-scope with the max rpm and compare it to the new trigger wheel that I'm going to make.

[GintsK]

Giant tooth will not work. I have experience. missing gap  1/3...1/2 deep from normal gives best result.

[Sanjuro]

Giant tooth will not work. I have experience. missing gap  1/3...1/2 deep from normal gives best result.

Cool, good thing I checked the forums before hitting the shop.  Updated my drawing: