No Crank Trigger / RPM - New Installation Configuration

[MTRacing]

I'm well underway towards the initial start-up on my project 1969 Camaro, and have started configuring and testing the ECU.

General project details can be found at the following link:

http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FMTRacing

I have uploaded firmware version 1.0.73 with the matched MegaTune version and have started modifying a borrowed configuration as a base line. I will post questions for specific areas as I move along and tweak each area.  The following are links to the initial config.txt and tables.txt files being used:

http://scirocco.dhs.org/cheapassron/MT/config.txt
http://scirocco.dhs.org/cheapassron/MT/tables.txt

I've been able to connnect to the VEMS and can see initial readings for voltage, CLT, MAT, MAP, EGT and TPS but do not see a RPM signal when cranking.

I'm using an Electromotive 60-2 VR crank trigger and can read a clean 1.2 Vpp sign wave on my scope at the ECU connector when cranking. Using the mlp01 command, I'm not seeing any feedback or errors and MegaTune does not show an RPM reading. VEMS acts as if the crank trigger is not connected.

I'm using a VEMS factory V-8  harness and can also control the fuel pump, fans and water pump so I'm not inclined to think the P259 chip is bad.

The ultimate goal and plan for the car is COP and sequential injection.  The firing order is 1 8 4 3 6 5 7 2 and I'm using a Hall cam sync signal.

I've followed Rob's suggestions from the wiki site and need to know what to look at next. Any ideas or setting changes to get me closer?

Thanks,

Mike

[PeepPaadam]

Most likely you'll need a different VR sensor. With smaller than stock wheels, most VR sensors don't want to give signal suitable for VEMS. You should try Ford VR sensr that is from Galaxy 2.0 85kW. It's tested to work well on small(ish) size 60-2 trigger wheels.

[dnb]

Are you using the cam trigger yet?  Try turning it off and configuring for wasted spark using just the crank trigger as a test to isolate the two triggers if you haven't done so already.

[16Victor]

Hi all,

I've been helping Mike on this project.  It's getting frustrating as we've been led to believe that what's installed *should* work or at least generate errors...but we get no sign that a trigger is even connected.

Here's the trigger setup:


Here's the waveform:


And just for fun, we're safe trying anything since we made up these cool litter testerators:


Is that a good waveform?  If not what does VEMS need vs what we have?

Thx in advance,

Ron

[[email protected]]

Looking at the config you have it looks pretty much right, although you have:
primary_trigger=02 and the other primary_trigger=01
Which may cause an issue - BUT if the VEMS sees any trigger signal it will prime the fuel pump ready so that when the crank signal is synchronised it will be able to start injecting with a good pressure.

So that suggests that the trigger is 'deaf', so the next test will be to stimulate it with signal, I've setup a signalgen file to simulate a 60-2 trigger starting at 200 rpm, moving to 1000 rpm, sweeping up to 7500 down to 1000 and back to 7500.
Download and unzip this:
http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMSTrigger/60-2SigGen.zip
Then you'll need to wire a audio plug from the PC speakers or laptop to the crank sensor input directly - make sure that the signal goes to the signal pin, but that the ground goes to the ground cluster.

[PeepPaadam]

Did you try switching to coil-type to see ifit registers rpm (though not correct)? If it shows rpm, then go and buy that VR sensor that I mentioned earlier in this thread.

[MTRacing]

I'll spend some time on it after work tonight and will report back what I find out.

Thanks!

Mike

[MTRacing]

OK, status as of today:

- Changed primary_trigger to 1 (no change)
- Changed Primary Trigger Settings Type to Coil (no change)
- Ran signalgen.exe from Rob, saw trigger errors but no RPM.  Noted intermittend flashing of injector test LEDs.  Changed polarity of trigger signal, saw no errors, RPM signal, or flashing LEDs).
- Inspected VEMS genboard V3.3, noted R30 is present.  This conflicts with instructions on the wiki (http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=GenBoard%2FManual%2FInputTriggerHardWare

Have photos of the board if needed.

Also, noted the board is labeled V3.3 on the topside, but V3.4 on the bottom?  Is this normal/important?

Your help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike

[PeepPaadam]

Remove R30.

[Denmark]

Yep ,

remove R30,

I have also just had a board were if was soldered in place..


/Skassa

[MTRacing]

Update 4-5-09

Removed R30, still no signal when cranked using either multi-tooth or coil type settings.

Connected signal generator from PC and saw erratic RPM readings on MegaTune (jumps) when the volume was nearly at max level and set to coil type, rising edge and standard polarity (+  to + and - to -). No readings when polarity is reversed.

No trigger errors were displayed on MegaTune during the test.

Test LEDs for most injectors would occasionally flash but cylinders 1, 2 and 3 don't seem to flash at all. No coil LEDs would flash.

Changed settings in table h[2] labeled "settings that has to be 0" to IGN

Test LEDs for most coils began to flash intermittently but cylinders 7 and 4 never seem to flash.

The MegaTune manual indicates that a small amplifier is needed to generate enough voltage for a VR test.  Is this the same requirement to test VEMS correctly and possibly eliminate the erratic/intermittent readings and outputs?

Any additional tests or settings to check?

What else needs to be done to rule out a hardware problem with my ECU?

If I'll need a different VR sensor, any recommendations (make and model of car found in the U.S. or part number) that will fit in my mount that has a 1/2" ID hole?

Does anyone have a known working configuration for a V-8 that is close to my configuration that I can use as a better base line to build from?

Ideally, I'd like to post all of the particulars of my engine, EFI configuration and wiring and then download the custom config.txt and tables.txt that would maximize my configuration and fine tune from that point.

Any and all help would be appreciated as my wife's patience is wearing thin with me and the project!

Thanks,

Mike

[MTRacing]

Rob,

Any ideas / feedback on this situation?

Thanks in advance!

Mike

[[email protected]]

When I test using the signal gen I do it through an amplified pair of speakers and usually need it up at 3/4 volume.

As you are seeing erratic RPM with the signalgen its showing more activity than with the crank sensor.

I've never had any problems using a Magnetti Marelli SEN-8D sensor but I dont know if they'll be common in the US.  I've also used stock Ford so any thing in the scrap yard that has 36-1 using EDIS or newer should work.

Can you move the sensor so that its closer to the trigger wheel?  We had someone with no RPM the other day and they found that the guy who assembled the engine had used too great a gap between the sensor and the trigger.

[ryniobl]

First I would like to say HELLO EVERYBODY my name is Richard! It's my first post here :)

MTracing I had similar problem to your,and after hours spent on searching in the internet and playing with scope,i removed R30,R57 and put short instead of C31.That cured all of my triggering problems.Hope it will help to you.

cheers Richard

[[email protected]]

Thanks, with first posts like that you're welcome here ;D