Several Wiring Questions

[Sanjuro]

Hello guys, I finally got around to signing up at the forums.  I was initially hoping to get all my answers from the wiki, but you all know how well that goes

I have the following questions after diving the wiki / documentation for a week.  Oh and I have v3.5 board and plan on running v1.1.18

• How do we go about wiring up the 2nd WBO2 sensor?  I tried tracing EC18 pins for a 2nd LM324 but I just don't trust myself
• Where is a good place to get the sensor connector + wire for a Bosch 17014?
• What is the definitive guide on placing the missing tooth of a 60-2 wheel?  I'm planning to use this in a Nissan VQ30DE with a 15 degree ATDC camsync (rising edge), and I have the option to rotate the 60-2 wheel however I want to.  I can't seem to find a very good guide on dual wheel placement!
• Do people actually connect injector flyback (EC36-23) to 12V prior to the injector fuse?  I've seen both!

This unassembled board is a major undertaking, I'm very tempted to write a supplement to Bob's guide after I'm done!

[GintsK]

Second WBO2 will never be implemented. No way with current hardware.
Easiest way to get WBO2 connector is vems.hu webshop. Alternatively you can try any of your VAG dealers.
Usually on OE missing tooth is placed about 90-120deg BTDC. It means first comes missing then TDC.
camsync works as reset for firing order counter. It is easiest if camsync signal comes between trigger tooth of last and first cylinder of firing order. But other position only changes first cylinder in order cycle.

[rob@vems.co.uk]

Don't use a 60-2 if you can help it - they never seem to work correctly.

For the VG you should use one of my 24+1 CAS disks, they work perfectly well with Hall/Hall trigger.

And there is some bareboard implementation info that I've written - it came before I did the User Guide
http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMS/

[GintsK]

Sorry, Rob! what you means with 60-2 never seem to work correctly?
I have a tens of 60-2  on the road.

[gunni]

And everybody who I know and their Grandma´s run 60-2s

[rob@vems.co.uk]

Sorry I should have been a little bot more specific
Aftermarket ones are normally a problem, plus the Nissan disks work perfectly in a large number of different applications.
Usually the people making the triggers don't understand how the trigger sensors work and have big tooth gaps that cause strange electrical problems and noise in the missing tooth.

[Sanjuro]

Second WBO2 will never be implemented. No way with current hardware.

Wha?  Webshop claims 2 WBO2 heater drivers, and http://fireandfuel.ca/content/view/17/84/ claims 2 WBO2 controllers onboard.  I've been under the impression that this is the case all along...  Is it just a firmware issue?

Usually on OE missing tooth is placed about 90-120deg BTDC. It means first comes missing then TDC.
camsync works as reset for firing order counter. It is easiest if camsync signal comes between trigger tooth of last and first cylinder of firing order. But other position only changes first cylinder in order cycle.

This is more or less what I'm dealing with:



So that would look about right?  The 15 ATDC camsync actually coincides with the falling edge of a teeth on the trigger wheel, would that be a problem?

[Sanjuro]

Don't use a 60-2 if you can help it - they never seem to work correctly.

For the VG you should use one of my 24+1 CAS disks, they work perfectly well with Hall/Hall trigger.

And there is some bareboard implementation info that I've written - it came before I did the User Guide
http://www.vems.co.uk/VEMS/

Sorry Rob for getting your name wrong, it was an embarrassing moment for me 

60-2 no good?  I can machine up whatever wheel pattern so we are not really limited to that.  Its just like gunni said, everyone uses a 60-2.  Unfortunately it is not a VG, it is a VQ and has no distributor.  What would you recommend as a good wheel pattern?

[z0tya]

Maybe Rob think, that the big gap would be not as deep as normal gap.

[Sprocket]

Second WBO2 will never be implemented. No way with current hardware.

Wha?  Webshop claims 2 WBO2 heater drivers, and http://fireandfuel.ca/content/view/17/84/ claims 2 WBO2 controllers onboard.  I've been under the impression that this is the case all along...  Is it just a firmware issue?

I believe what is meant by the hardware comment is that there is no way to calibrate the second WBO2 sensor, seperately from the first. However, I find that the consistancy of sensors these days is quite close, that I dont think it really matters. I calibrated a brand new sensor, then used a sensor that had been on the wifes Seat Arosa for 30k miles, then a sensor which had been abused on the Mini with the VEMS, and a new but used sensor. ALL were within 0.2% of each other with only one calibration constant!!

As for the firmware. I asked for a monitoring only second channel, this was being looked at at the time of my asking, but, because I changed direction with the engine configuration, I never pushed it any further.

[Sanjuro]

Sorry I should have been a little bot more specific
Aftermarket ones are normally a problem, plus the Nissan disks work perfectly in a large number of different applications.
Usually the people making the triggers don't understand how the trigger sensors work and have big tooth gaps that cause strange electrical problems and noise in the missing tooth.

Rob does my plan look about right?

I believe what is meant by the hardware comment is that there is no way to calibrate the second WBO2 sensor, seperately from the first. However, I find that the consistancy of sensors these days is quite close, that I dont think it really matters. I calibrated a brand new sensor, then used a sensor that had been on the wifes Seat Arosa for 30k miles, then a sensor which had been abused on the Mini with the VEMS, and a new but used sensor. ALL were within 0.2% of each other with only one calibration constant!!

As for the firmware. I asked for a monitoring only second channel, this was being looked at at the time of my asking, but, because I changed direction with the engine configuration, I never pushed it any further.

So it looks like if we can live with the small sensor to sensor inconsistencies we can get away with 2.  Come to think of it I guess it won't really matter, since getting the reading on 6 cylinders is just as good as getting 2 signals of 3 cylinders each (I don't suppose we can tune per-bank fuel trim).  Just for reference, are there any mention of 2nd channel WB02 development threads that you can point me to?

[rob@vems.co.uk]

For triggers the best (if you have a cam sync) is to have one tooth 60deg BTDC for each cylinder pair - so you'd have 3 teeth 120 deg apart, and to use a Hall sensor.

Failing that a 36-1 pattern is the most effective DIY solution, theres so many out there that work.  60-2 doesn't really bring much to the party.

[rob@vems.co.uk]

Maybe Rob think, that the big gap would be not as deep as normal gap.

That sort of gap cleans up the noise in the missing teeth.  But if you're making your own trigger why mess around cutting double the number of teeth that you actually have to?

[GintsK]

Agree: self made 60-2 can cause problems.
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=InputTrigger%2FMultitoothProblem
At same time code can calculate advance from last possible tooth. It is reason to use more teeth.

camsync and tooth at one time is no problem as long as it is not match your defined trigger tooth.

Second WBO2 FET is like nick name of FET. It can be used for switching an additional devices, but as I understand hardware is too week to handle two WBO2 - no free PWM channels or something like that... And no software of course.

[rob@vems.co.uk]

Second WBO2 FET is like nick name of FET. It can be used for switching an additional devices, but as I understand hardware is too week to handle two WBO2 - no free PWM channels or something like that... And no software of course.

I have often said that there should be less of the "theoretical" features of the unit on the webshop page: second wideband, ibutton interface and so on, but they have a problem disassociating what the hardware offers and what the software enables.