Author Topic: Lanos 1.6 (VEMS and turbo on the way)  (Read 72741 times)

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: Lanos 1.6 (VEMS and turbo on the way)
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2009, 04:53:54 pm »
The factory ecu has the coil power and and switched power from different sources.  The connection I've recommended shares the same fused power supply.

Offline bob3825

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Re: Lanos 1.6 (VEMS and turbo on the way)
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2009, 06:24:07 pm »
then i guess its better to keep it on the factories way since its more safer that way

There is something else, I see that most people and in Rob's user guide that it is better to use the Stepper chanels to control ignition which is great since i have a DIS wasted spark with 2 coils, with cylinder 1&4 on coil A and 2&3 on coil B, but i also have a stepper motor iac which also should be wired to the 4 stepper channels, so what should i do? shall i just control the coil packs with the normal ignition channels or is there another way, i couldn't find anything related in the ignition section

Offline gunni

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Re: Lanos 1.6 (VEMS and turbo on the way)
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2009, 07:16:53 pm »
If you plan on running the iac using the stepper then you can just use the ignition outputs to run your wasted spark coil.

Offline bob3825

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Re: Lanos 1.6 (VEMS and turbo on the way)
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2009, 07:41:38 pm »
pardon me for the stupid question but is there another way to run the iac?

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: Lanos 1.6 (VEMS and turbo on the way)
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2009, 07:52:06 pm »
Definitely stick to using the stepper in order to control the IACV.
When it comes to driving the coils, you can use either the existing ignition amplifier, or the IGBTs in the box - which would only mean running two wires from the VEMS to the coils.  Have you got the schematics for the ignition like the one for the fuel pump?

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: Lanos 1.6 (VEMS and turbo on the way)
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2009, 07:52:40 pm »
pardon me for the stupid question but is there another way to run the iac?

You could replace it and use a simple Bosch PWM type.

Offline bob3825

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Re: Lanos 1.6 (VEMS and turbo on the way)
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2009, 08:02:52 pm »
Oh you meant change the iac itself, i'll see if this bosch PWM came in any of the BMWs since i have immediate access to bmw spare parts

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: Lanos 1.6 (VEMS and turbo on the way)
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2009, 08:06:42 pm »
Lots of BMW options with IACV
But try to sort the ignition out without using the stepper if you can


Offline bob3825

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Re: Lanos 1.6 (VEMS and turbo on the way)
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2009, 08:13:20 pm »
Ok i'll just connect them to 2 of the 8 ignition drivers and keep the steppers for the iac

Offline bob3825

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Re: Lanos 1.6 (VEMS and turbo on the way)
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2009, 08:01:32 pm »
i need someone kind enough to review these ignition settings just to make sure everything is right, the firing order is 1-3-4-2, and i have coil 1(Cyl 1&4) connected to EC36-pin35 and coil 2 (Cyl 2&3) to EC36-pin33, I know i progress slowly but my semester's final exams so only get about 1 hour everyday free to work on the install but my final exam is tomorrow so hopefully i'll finish in the weekend



Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: Lanos 1.6 (VEMS and turbo on the way)
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2009, 08:45:17 pm »
Those charge times look a little bit low - Id be expecting something around 2ms.
Don't forget that the table reads from the highest cell down so you have it setup: EC36pin33, EC36pin35, EC36pin33, EC36pin35 or 2&3, 1&4, 2&3, and 1&4

Offline bob3825

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Re: Lanos 1.6 (VEMS and turbo on the way)
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2009, 01:05:18 am »
oh so its 3-1-2-4 instead of 1-3-4-2

as for the coil charge time, i don't understand quite exactly how to calculate it, if i understand correctly then the coil charge time is the dwell which has a formula

T = (-L/R) * ln( 1 - (R * I / V))

where,

T is the time i want, no problem here
V is the voltage which is 14 and 6 volts
L is the inductance which i have no idea how to measure it on my DIS
R is the resistance which i know how to measure but don't know if its the primary resistance or the secondary one
I is the current and i don't know how to measure it either

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: Lanos 1.6 (VEMS and turbo on the way)
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2009, 02:57:12 am »
Nice to see that you are calculating things, but coils don't work in the same way as steady state resistors.
Current rises rapidly in an inductor:

So to work out the correct dwell you'd need to calculate the amount of spark energy that the plug will need to fire, then work back from the secondary coil to the primary - so you'd need to know the number of windings as a bare minimum then factor in loads of stuff I dont understand.

But what we find in reality is that we use a rule of thumb for these sorts of things - Coil on plugs usually take 1.2 to 2ms, coil packs 2ms to 4ms, single coils with distributors tend to take more (never done one so I can't comment).

The tuning process is to start low and see how you get on - with a coil pack like you have I'd go for 3 to 3.5 and try increasing 0.25ms at a time if you don't get a spark (Ford EDIS coilpacks need 3.8ms before they spark) once you're running you may find some high RPM misfires occur if your dwell is too low, once again you can increase the dwell a little if this happens.

Most importantly you need to use a fuse to protect things if you use a 6 to 7A fuse you shouldn't burn out anything that way.

Offline bob3825

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Re: Lanos 1.6 (VEMS and turbo on the way)
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2009, 03:27:38 am »
Now you got me wanting to know more about this so its reading and research time but for now i'll start at about 2.5 or 3 ms and watch out for high rpm misfires and increase the dwell accordingly

also my stock wiring uses a 15A, so i guess if i change it to a 6A one during dwell tuning i'd be fine


Offline bob3825

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Re: Lanos 1.6 (VEMS and turbo on the way)
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2009, 07:10:56 am »
Forgot to ask, doesn't VEMS need any injector grounds? because i see my stock ecu has 2 pins for injector grounds so should i just leave those 2 wires unconnected or connect them with the sensor grounds ?