Cam sync/Secondary trigger [was: confused RE: V8 sequential COP outputs]

[irishtwincam]

Ignition outputs are traversed in reverse order?
Doestn this mean the CU will spark last to first on this list?
Is this the problem?



cylinder 1 = EC36 pin 35
cylinder 2 = EC36 pin 10
cylinder 3 = EC36 pin 12
cylinder 4 = EC36 pin 34
cylinder 5 = EC36 pin 33
cylinder 6 = EC36 pin 11
cylinder 7 = EC36 pin 24
cylinder 8 = EC36 pin 36

This gives the required firing order of  1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2

[hilly]

I'll email over the msq tonight when I get home.

Hilly

[rob@vems.co.uk]

Ignition outputs are traversed in reverse order?
Doestn this mean the CU will spark last to first on this list?
Is this the problem?



cylinder 1 = EC36 pin 35
cylinder 2 = EC36 pin 10
cylinder 3 = EC36 pin 12
cylinder 4 = EC36 pin 34
cylinder 5 = EC36 pin 33
cylinder 6 = EC36 pin 11
cylinder 7 = EC36 pin 24
cylinder 8 = EC36 pin 36

This gives the required firing order of  1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2

We can configure VEMS to fire any of the ignition pins in any order.  And when you consider that its possible to connect the coils to any pin things can get a little complicated.  So I like to make one thing constant: coil number = cylinder number.

coil 0 -> EC36-pin35 connected to cylinder 1
coil 1 -> EC36-pin33 connected to cylinder 2
coil 2 -> EC36-pin34 connected to cylinder 3
coil 3 -> EC36-pin36 connected to cylinder 4
coil 4 -> EC36-pin11 connected to cylinder 5
coil 5 -> EC36-pin12 connected to cylinder 6
coil 6 -> EC36-pin24 connected to cylinder 7
coil 7 -> EC36-pin10 connected to cylinder 8
Once I've done this I know that I can fire cylinder 1 by selecting 0 in the software, and would set h[2] up as:
1, 6, 3, 5, 7, 3, 4, 0

Other people (we'll refer to them as perverts) like to connect up their coils in firing order:
coil 0 -> EC36-pin35 connected to cylinder 1
coil 1 -> EC36-pin33 connected to cylinder 5
coil 2 -> EC36-pin34 connected to cylinder 4
coil 3 -> EC36-pin36 connected to cylinder 8
coil 4 -> EC36-pin11 connected to cylinder 6
coil 5 -> EC36-pin12 connected to cylinder 3
coil 6 -> EC36-pin24 connected to cylinder 7
coil 7 -> EC36-pin10 connected to cylinder 2

And then you put the firing order in h[2] as:
7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0

The reason I choose the former rather than the latter is that I like to keep the hardware connections in a logical order and mess with the software setup, its easier to chase software setup issues that mess around trying to figure which wire went where in the footwell of a car.

[hilly]

We can configure VEMS to fire any of the ignition pins in any order.  And when you consider that its possible to connect the coils to any pin things can get a little complicated.  So I like to make one thing constant: coil number = cylinder number.

coil 0 -> EC36-pin35 connected to cylinder 1
coil 1 -> EC36-pin33 connected to cylinder 2
coil 2 -> EC36-pin34 connected to cylinder 3
coil 3 -> EC36-pin36 connected to cylinder 4
coil 4 -> EC36-pin11 connected to cylinder 5
coil 5 -> EC36-pin12 connected to cylinder 6
coil 6 -> EC36-pin24 connected to cylinder 7
coil 7 -> EC36-pin10 connected to cylinder 8
Once I've done this I know that I can fire cylinder 1 by selecting 0 in the software, and would set h[2] up as:
1, 6, 3, 5, 7, 3, 4, 0

Other people (we'll refer to them as perverts) like to connect up their coils in firing order:
coil 0 -> EC36-pin35 connected to cylinder 1
coil 1 -> EC36-pin33 connected to cylinder 5
coil 2 -> EC36-pin34 connected to cylinder 4
coil 3 -> EC36-pin36 connected to cylinder 8
coil 4 -> EC36-pin11 connected to cylinder 6
coil 5 -> EC36-pin12 connected to cylinder 3
coil 6 -> EC36-pin24 connected to cylinder 7
coil 7 -> EC36-pin10 connected to cylinder 2

And then you put the firing order in h[2] as:
7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0

The reason I choose the former rather than the latter is that I like to keep the hardware connections in a logical order and mess with the software setup, its easier to chase software setup issues that mess around trying to figure which wire went where in the footwell of a car.

Opps, I am a deviant............................

[dnb]

At least you didn't connect them up in random order.

[hilly]

Bloody hell this is confusing.............. and mine works!!!!!!!

I have just had another look at it and I have infact connected it up in a non-"perverted" way, or have I, ahhhhhhh!!!

I think all the ignition output confusion stems from how the stuff is labelled within MegaTune.
Some stuff is numbered plainly (coil1, coil 2, coil3.......coil8), some in digital format (ie 1=0, 2=1, 3=2 .....8=7) and it is all mixed together.
If the [h]2 order stayed as it is [0:7] and the ign outputs lettered [A:H] it would possibly make more sense when you looked at it on screen, I think.................
What would also make it a bit more obvious is an arrow on the ignition output table showing which way VEMS counts through the channels.

Just a thought.

Hilly

[rob@vems.co.uk]

The problem with the setup is caused by the system's versatility.  You can use the coil outputs, or the stepper outputs to drive the ignition, in any pattern you choose.  To be fair MegaTune Ignition Outputs do specify the Pin number in the drop downs.
When we finally get our software sorted it should be easier for people to understand.

[hilly]

The problem with the setup is caused by the system's versatility.  You can use the coil outputs, or the stepper outputs to drive the ignition, in any pattern you choose.  To be fair MegaTune Ignition Outputs do specify the Pin number in the drop downs.
When we finally get our software sorted it should be easier for people to understand.

Indeed

I am not having a go at MegaTune as I think it is a brilliant bit of software, but it is confusing when you look at it as there so many similar looking numbers meaning different things.

Having spent the last hour looking at my .xls file which I generated when I wired up my VEMS and a photo of the VEMS, I have now realised that what is on that .xls isn't what I have wired up!!!!
I must have changed it for some reason when assembling the ECU and forgot to update the spreadsheet, D'oh!!!!
So that list of cylinder vs pin number I posted earlier is wrong, it should be :-

cylinder 1 = EC36 pin 35
cylinder 2 = EC36 pin 33
cylinder 3 = EC36 pin 34
cylinder 4 = EC36 pin 36
cylinder 5 = EC36 pin 11
cylinder 6 = EC36 pin 12
cylinder 7 = EC36 pin 24
cylinder 8 = EC36 pin 10

Now it all makes sense..........

It just goes to show kids, you should keep good upto date records of your wiring..........

Hilly

[PeepPaadam]

As for Audi V8 I installed VEMS & COP (1.8T passive coils) onto S6 V8 engine (auditrigger) but added 3 more pins to one reference pin on the flywheel and used cam sync. Car didn't start until I rotated the firing sequence on ign-outputs.
If anyone's interested I have config+tables also.

[Jorgen]

Start by removing the connectors from the injectors when you want to try something like this. You really need to fully index the engine. Make marks for all cylinders on the driver side (Passenger side for UK.) cam pulley and use a strobe light when cranking the engine. (For those who don't know the ABZ: It's much simpler to remove the driver side cam belt cover.) Do this for each cylinder, MAKE SURE TO UNPLUG THE PRIMARY OF ALL COILS EXCEPT FOR THE ONE YOU STROBE. THIS IS NOT THE TIME FOR FIREWORKS.

You also need to be aware that the early and late ABZ engines have different cam sync wheels, the early ones work, the late ones doesn't! So you need the cup from a '95-'96, these only have one slot. The late model trigger will only make the ECU very confused. The late model cup can be modified to work, just remove most of it so you only have one vane.

Jörgen Karlsson
Gothenburg

[MTRacing]

PeepPaadam,

I'm working on a Chevrolet V-8 with COP with seq. injection.  Any chance that you can post your config and tables.txt to allow something to build from? I'm running 1.0.73.

Let me know.

Thanks!

Mike

[josh-stateside]

I'm going to add to this if folks don't mind.

The 12v v6 audi engines have a single window cam sync wheel vs the majority of the 4.2L 32v COP engines which have multiple windows.   It should be a direct swap.  I can double check this at some point since I have both setups.