WBO2 heater shuts off after 45sec

[turbojoy]

Hi all,
I'm controlling a V12 with two Vems boards.
The WBO2 on both my Vems boards doesn't work.
I checked every connection and performed the calibrations with the two 100ohm resistors.
Also checked the heater output with a lamp of 12V/10W. (later with a led as in the vems manual=>same result)
All was good, I got the same values as written on the paper that came with the boards.
There was one thing however that I find very odd.
After about 35 to 45 sec the heating of the sensor shuts off.
It does so when powering on; when the engine starts and when calibrating the WBO.
WHY?
When calibrating, after the heaters shuts off, I click 'stop calibrating' and then 'start calibrating'.
I have to do this several times until the sensor is heated up and gives an O2 reading.
Then the heating stays on (regulates).
Also several times restarting the engine gives the same result, but WBO does not work inside exhaust on running engine.
Maybe because the cold exhaust gasses cool the sensor and after +/- 45sec the heater shuts off.
I'm using firmware 1.2.10
Is there something wrong with this firmware about the WBO heater???
Both my boards have exactly the same problem.
As I'm a little affraid to upload other firmware (a lot can go wrong) I haven't done it.
Anyone an idea or solution?

Kind regards,
Tommy

[mattias]

How about posting screenshots of your settings?

[turbojoy]

Ok, here is one.
Hope it's viewable.

[/URL]

Any help welcome.
Regards,
Tommy

[NOTORIOUS VR]

After reading your projects page, I'm willing to bet that either the VEMS is going through a reset or the crank signal is dropping just enough to cause the WB02 to reset but you don't notice anything else.

You've decided to take a very complicated route for this project, why I do not know but you have other problems that you must take care of.  The WBO2 is not the problem here IMO so I would stop focusing on that.

[turbojoy]

Hi Notorious VR,

My route was mainly decided by what the customer wanted. I was forced to leave everything standard as much as possible.
Also the engine must be controlled like it was done originally when it left the factory.
Meaning: full sequential ignition and injection on 12cylinders, no change in cam/crank signals, must use the originals.
I didn't find a way to do this with one Vems. So I used 2 Vems. (tell me how if I'm wrong!)
The only thing that was allowed to change from the start was the ignition coils (and extra wire loom).
That was also the reason to start this project.
I'm doing this together with a friend who is mapping the car; I'm just building the electronics and do the wiring.
Next week I'm going back to him and hope to get from someone a hint to solve the wbo problem, because I'm stuck, really.
Anyway, I have my doubts that the cause of the early shut off from the wbo is caused by a reset and/or dropping from crank signal.
This is why: 2 reasons.
1)
Keep in mind that the engine is running really fine, with no issues or misfires! (for once Murphy was on vacation...)
If the Vems was resetting or there is something wrong with the crank signal you should hear it immediately.
I tested the Vems boards on the bench, with a signal generator for cam and crank signals.
And the result was the same. Shut off after about 45sec.
2)
When going to 'tools' -> calibrate wbo and click on 'calibrate' the heater shuts off also after 45sec and the screen is still showing 'heating'...
At this point, resets or bad crank/cam signals have nothing to do with it, because the engine cannot be running when doing this.
At least the heater, when calibrating, should work good, but it isn't.
And both my Vems boards have exactly the same problem.
If I'm thinking completely wrong, guide me please. I have no friends to talk about all this, they don't understand, their skills are else ware..
If you want my config files I'm happy to mail them, just let me know.

Best regards,
Tommy

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Hi Notorious VR,

My route was mainly decided by what the customer wanted.

Unfortunately the customer is generally not the one who has to deal with issues in the end.  I would have told the customer that he is out of luck and the only way to do this correctly was to convert to a single ECU.  But that's just me.

1)
Keep in mind that the engine is running really fine, with no issues or misfires! (for once Murphy was on vacation...)
If the Vems was resetting or there is something wrong with the crank signal you should hear it immediately.

This is not the case in my experience.  I've seen bad crank signals let the engine run just fine and you would never really know to see the reset of the ECU except for the fact that the wideband O2 resets.  So I can say with 100% certainty that you would be wrong in assuming the cam/crank is ok just because the engine is running with "no issues or misfires"

I tested the Vems boards on the bench, with a signal generator for cam and crank signals.
And the result was the same. Shut off after about 45sec.

Then I suppose either you made an error somewhere in the build of the VEMS or again, the crank/cam signals are not 100% in either signals or settings.  Of course if it is always turning off at 45 sec then I suppose it could be something else but I have never heard of this problem and I will maintain that it has something to do with your crank/cam connections/signals between the ECU's.

2)
When going to 'tools' -> calibrate wbo and click on 'calibrate' the heater shuts off also after 45sec and the screen is still showing 'heating'...

The screen saying heating doesn't mean anything.. It's a dumb screen and just a text.  It will sit there forever saying heating and then eventually try to calibrate regardless if the heater is on or not.  Just your O2 readings will not be correct or violently moving around never being able to hit the target.

And both my Vems boards have exactly the same problem.

Unfortunately if you can apply just this logic, that if both ECU's are going it you must understand that the problem must be elsewhere, either on some modification you have done to the ECU's or wiring elsewhere.  That is my only advice to you.  I cannot see that you were do unlucky to have two ECU's have the exact same problem at the exact same time.

You're running a very complicated setup here, one that IMO you should have talked the customer out of.  But I wish you the best of luck.  I still think it's an issue of trigger of sorts, as it is the only time I've ever seen a WBO2 "reset".

One thing I haven't been able to determine from your posts.  Once the WBO2 turns off, does it eventually turn on again?

Regards,
Sascha

[turbojoy]

Hi Sascha,

If it was a simple straight forward install, there is not much  joy in it. As we (my friend and I) were crazy enough to accept the project (were others refused), it gives us now much satisfaction that in the end it worked out well.
Ok, we have still a long way to go mapping wise, but all electronic problems are solved  by now exept this wbo thing.

I reviewed all my connections. On both boards. They are just fine. It is not a wrong wiring or bad wiring.
When I get a reading (after several times on/off in calibrating) I get a perfect normal reading. The reading is stable too. I'm also alble to calibrate it perfectly, no jumping arround of the measurement.
Like said it's just the heater that causes me trouble. The damned thing shut off with no reason to do so...

Only my ignition output stages are modified. All the rest is not touched or completely standard setup.
2 x VR as input for cam/crank 8injection outputs, 2ignition outputs with the standard IGBT and 6ignitions outputs with the TC4427A who are driving VW cop coils (one per output).
See this picture:

[/URL]

I know that I must either made the same mistake twice or that the problem is something else and also the same for both boards. Obvious.
I'm thinking on the firmware. I'm using 1.2.10, which was loaded when I bought the boards.
I didn't upgrade to a newer or other firmware version as I'm a little affraid to do it.
That's why I'm asking of anyone else has the same problem with the same firmware as my boards.

And to answer your question: No, after the heater shuts off, it never goes on again.
I do understand that it is an odd problem.  I don't have others, haha.

Question: You've said: "you would never really know to see the reset of the ECU except for the fact that the wideband O2 resets"
If I scope the reset line on the µP should I see it then??

Best regards,
Tommy

[bonden]

Sorry for bringing back an old topic, but did you ever figure this out OP? I have the exact same issue. When calibrating, its only heating for ~45 seconds, maybe less. If I restart the calibration, it will heat for ~45 seconds again..

[Sprocket]

Sorry for bringing back an old topic, but did you ever figure this out OP? I have the exact same issue. When calibrating, its only heating for ~45 seconds, maybe less. If I restart the calibration, it will heat for ~45 seconds again..

I have noticed something with this only this week while trying to calibrate a new sensor.

Using the calibration wizard, the wizards starts heating the sensor. The sensor does get up to temperature. The wizard switches to the live O2 reading. The wizard then starts the calibration. During this SHORT period, the O2 reading quickly increases towards off scale high where the wizard then reverts to heating but the sensor its self cools, not much else happens, it just sits there 'Heating'. Stopping the calibration process and restarting, it repeats the same.

Firmware 1.2.38, latest INI, VemsTune 1.5.55 (2017.03.22), Wideband is LSU4.9 with external pull up.

I don't have time for this, to put in a report, I just don't want to get side tracked unnecessarily, I've got an engine to get running and somewhere near tuned, I'll deal with it if I really really need to, i'm just merely confirming to a degree what has been said above.

I'm fairly confident that the calibration value I have is close after trying for about an hour, the O2 reading always  zeros in to 20.8 - 20.9 before the calibration wizard starts getting funky.

[bonden]

Sorry for bringing back an old topic, but did you ever figure this out OP? I have the exact same issue. When calibrating, its only heating for ~45 seconds, maybe less. If I restart the calibration, it will heat for ~45 seconds again..

I have noticed something with this only this week while trying to calibrate a new sensor.

Using the calibration wizard, the wizards starts heating the sensor. The sensor does get up to temperature. The wizard switches to the live O2 reading. The wizard then starts the calibration. During this SHORT period, the O2 reading quickly increases towards off scale high where the wizard then reverts to heating but the sensor its self cools, not much else happens, it just sits there 'Heating'. Stopping the calibration process and restarting, it repeats the same.

Firmware 1.2.38, latest INI, VemsTune 1.5.55 (2017.03.22), Wideband is LSU4.9 with external pull up.

I don't have time for this, to put in a report, I just don't want to get side tracked unnecessarily, I've got an engine to get running and somewhere near tuned, I'll deal with it if I really really need to, i'm just merely confirming to a degree what has been said above.

I'm fairly confident that the calibration value I have is close after trying for about an hour, the O2 reading always  zeros in to 20.8 - 20.9 before the calibration wizard starts getting funky.

How hot does it get? If I only switch it on, and leave it, it will get no warmer than bodytemperature. I would have to keep doing it alot of times, to make it so hot, that i cant touch it.

[Sprocket]

A word to the wise

Always ready the manual FIRST

I had wired the LSU4.9 as though it was an LSU4.2 Quick changing round of the wires fixed the wideband calibration issue

[bonden]

A word to the wise

Always ready the manual FIRST

I had wired the LSU4.9 as though it was an LSU4.2 Quick changing round of the wires fixed the wideband calibration issue

Dang, me to! Thx!