Help for ignition map needed

MadsF · October 13, 2016, 11:28:43 PM

Hello. I just finished rebuilding my new engine, as the old one went to pieces after running VE analyzer. Pretty much the first time i hit the gas, it gave a little sputter, and soon after it died on me. Proved later that the pistons 1# and 2# split into pieces between the ring grooves as well as one of them melted a bit. A lot of guys told me my map looks safe for driving (not that it is perfect). So i was wondering what your opinion might be?

Ruined engine specs : Volvo B230 8v. New piston rings, new gaskets and so on. Happened on 1.4 bar boost (20 psi) on 95RON fuel.

Pistons : https://s10.postimg.org/utb1a9f7d/20161007_182307.jpg
3D map : https://postimg.org/image/wcx7rdcb9
Map/ign table : https://postimg.org/image/bhaxg4g45

Kamuto · October 14, 2016, 12:19:30 AM

what compression ratio? :D and your map is totaly unsafe ;D

MadsF · October 14, 2016, 05:05:21 PM

Compression ratio is 8,7:1.

Oh is it? People are too smart then i guess. I still dont know shit about making maps, and seemingly no one near me has the knowledge to teach me about it.

MadsF · October 15, 2016, 12:53:20 PM

Cant possibly be true no one here can help me? I want to learn this, not pay some one who knows something to do it for me.

Mads Lund · October 15, 2016, 04:17:18 PM

Hi Mads

I'm sure Per boddum Andersen can help you, he's running a VEMS on his 8v 740 turbo

Send your private email add to me and I'll ask him to contact you my mail is mads at vejnoe dot com

He is also in this forum from time to time.

Br Mads

MadsF · October 15, 2016, 06:24:18 PM

Sent you a message Mads! Thanks ;D

perboddum · October 16, 2016, 11:45:01 PM

I have an 940 B230FT and runs 1 bar without problems for 3 years.
Rather conservative, but it works.

Per

MadsF · October 17, 2016, 12:34:08 PM

Thank you Per.

I'll start a new map based on yours, i think i will make it even more conservative untill i have proper knock detection and untill i can run high octane fuel.

I've heard that cyl 3 tends to run leaner somewhere else too, but also cyl 4 run warmer than the others? - on which cylinder would you place EGT?

What other specs is on your engine?

What turbo?
530 head?
VX cam?
Aluminium intercooler?
Deka 630 injectors?

perboddum · October 19, 2016, 07:31:51 AM

Hi

I only think that fuel difference would be a problem during higher boost than I use.
I have no experience with fuel difference between cylinders during boost.
However in Vems you can balance the fuel injectors, so they give equal or unequal amount of fuel.
My AFR is set for 12.5 at 0.8bar boost

Per

MadsF · October 19, 2016, 02:51:58 PM

I will be aiming for 12-12.3 at max throttle and max boost, hard to say whether or not my cylinders are running the same fuel ratio without 4x EGT or 4x AFR. But i do not think it is enough to be a problem anyways.

I think ill start with the map you posted, and work with that, advancing the timing a bit as boost increases, to avoid knock. Do not want that to happen again..

Kamuto · October 19, 2016, 03:50:01 PM

Quote from: MadsF on October 19, 2016, 02:51:58 PM
I will be aiming for 12-12.3 at max throttle and max boost, hard to say whether or not my cylinders are running the same fuel ratio without 4x EGT or 4x AFR. But i do not think it is enough to be a problem anyways.

I think ill start with the map you posted, and work with that, advancing the timing a bit as boost increases, to avoid knock. Do not want that to happen again..

you should retard not advance timing with bigger boost

MadsF · October 19, 2016, 03:54:54 PM

Well firing the spark close to top is the same as advancing in my head, isnt that what i want to do? Otherwise i am completely wrong about what i understand about this. I though that a spark fired closer to top equals less pressure on the upward motion of the piston which should reduce the stress on rods and knock aswell. :o

perboddum · October 20, 2016, 08:53:11 AM

Hi

Curious...How much ignition advance, boost, AFR did you run when our piston gave up ?
Was it piston no. 3 that blew up ?

A friend of mine (Volvo B200) runs 11.5-12.0 AFR at 1.6bar boost. Don't know the ignition advance as it is mechanical injection/ignition. He has burnt piston no. 3 a couple of times. The piston starts melting on the edge, down to the piston ring and then the show is done :). He is running racing fuel in his engine.

Per

MadsF · October 20, 2016, 12:04:42 PM

Quote from: perboddum on October 20, 2016, 08:53:11 AM
Hi

Curious...How much ignition advance, boost, AFR did you run when our piston gave up ?
Was it piston no. 3 that blew up ?

A friend of mine (Volvo B200) runs 11.5-12.0 AFR at 1.6bar boost. Don't know the ignition advance as it is mechanical injection/ignition. He has burnt piston no. 3 a couple of times. The piston starts melting on the edge, down to the piston ring and then the show is done :). He is running racing fuel in his engine.

Per

No sir, it was 1 and 2 that died. 1.4 bar 12AFR and timing as written earlier

fphil · October 20, 2016, 01:45:24 PM

Quote from: MadsF on October 19, 2016, 03:54:54 PM
Well firing the spark close to top is the same as advancing in my head, isnt that what i want to do? Otherwise i am completely wrong about what i understand about this. I though that a spark fired closer to top equals less pressure on the upward motion of the piston which should reduce the stress on rods and knock aswell. :o

More ignition advance makes the firing farther from the top.. The closer from the top the hotter the EGT. So there is compromise for the ignition advance to reach between the risk of detonation and a too high EGT temperature, I think.

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Help for ignition map needed