Author Topic: ECU Power Off Delay  (Read 13501 times)

Offline Sprocket

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ECU Power Off Delay
« on: October 19, 2007, 10:44:44 pm »
My thought is to delay the power down of the ecu when the ignition +ve is dropped, may be use an input for the ignition sense, this then also powers the ECU in parallel with the main relay switched power source. The main relay controled by the ecu as per normal but is an off delay latching circuit. so when the ignition sense input is dropped, The ignition and fuel is stopped, the off delay is started, the ecu still powered via the main relay switched power source untill the off delay has expired, then the latching circuit is broken, thus dropping all power from the ecu.


Work into this as the of delay is counting down, the stepper motor positioning to say maybe the last PID bin value of 40 steps, for example, obviously the stepper needs to close fully first to ensure it knew it was at zero steps, but it would then open to the 40 position. So, when the engine is turned on the stepper is at a 'known' 40 steps it just has to open to the cold steps position as per coolat temp PID bin value and steps when starting scale. Response is far quicker an prevents anyone trying to start an engine on a shut throttle, even if it is only for a couple of seconds.

Obviously there are still more pressing issues to be resolved with the stepper control such as the stepper closing the throttle completely on overrun. I can see the above being achieveble if one of the misc outputs had an off delay, much like the fuel pump. The output in question would need to be linked to the input used for sensing the ignition switch as well.

This theory could equaly apply to electric water pumps to run on for a time or until the engine temp is below a set limit to prevent major heat soak.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2007, 10:46:17 pm by Sprocket »

Offline cliffb75

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Re: ECU Power Off Delay
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2007, 09:17:10 am »
This is basically standard practice on current systems.

Delay is decided by the longest request from several factors. Most commonly cooling fans and water pumps as you have suggested, particularly in turbo cars where an afterrun pump is often used to help cool the turbo and avoid the need for idling the engine before shutting it off, but also in some cases to perform certain diagnostic routines etc.

 :)


Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: ECU Power Off Delay
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2007, 09:30:39 am »
There is no provision in the hardware for this.  We'd need a constant battery feed and an ignition power feed.

Offline Sprocket

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Re: ECU Power Off Delay
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2007, 02:21:22 pm »
Hardware is there, software is not, and why would you need a permanant power feed? ;)

Offline miniminor63

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Re: ECU Power Off Delay
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2007, 05:51:02 pm »
I would like something similar to run my electric water pump after the engine is turned off to avoid heat soak. I have it on a P259 channel currently and the VEMS is connected to ignition live. The feed power and signal power to the relay used for my waterpump are constant on as long as the my imobiliser switch is turned on. Would it be possible to have a second ground wire going to the ground on the relay (were the signal from the P259 is connected), and then when the VEMS is turned off and the electrical water pump stops, I could flick a switch over that enable this second ground to the relay to start the waterpump again. I know it will work, but will it harm the VEMS in any way? If not I will go ahead and wire it up for both the waterpump and the fan, as I previously have seen heatsoak causing HG trouble and temps way above 100 degrees on the engine...

Also would you recomend using a thermostat, or will it work okay just using the "waterpump controller" in the VEMS and its hysteresis to control the engine temp?Would that put a lot of strain on the VEMS and the relay?

Offline miniminor63

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Re: ECU Power Off Delay
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2007, 12:04:21 pm »
nobody know this?

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: ECU Power Off Delay
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2007, 01:34:45 pm »
I dont want to answer really, if I say "Yeah it will be fine" and it blows up then I'm going to be responsible.

If you pull the relay to ground in parallel to the P259 you may have a ground loop issue, you may not.

Rob

Offline miniminor63

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Re: ECU Power Off Delay
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2007, 01:38:45 pm »
okay, so if I make sure to never flick the switch to enable the second ground when the VEMS is on I SHOULD be alright? Maybe safer to use IGBT's to run the two then as its easier to replace?

I will not hold you responsible  :D, but would like advices if it a stupid thing to do or not :)

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: ECU Power Off Delay
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2007, 02:10:36 pm »
IGBTs can take a lot of abuse.

Offline miniminor63

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Re: ECU Power Off Delay
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2007, 02:13:06 pm »
so you think that is a better idea than the P259 then? it is just a simple task of putting the wires into the correct pins for the IGBT's and change the settings in megatune is it not?

do you have any better ideas how to run the fan and pump after the car is turned off than this?


Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: ECU Power Off Delay
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2007, 02:38:32 pm »
You can set the outputs using MegaTune.  For any experimental work I'd use one of the high current outputs before a P259 output.

I have no ideas that are immediately possible with regards to holding power on something for a specified amount of time after the engine has stopped running.

Offline Sprocket

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Re: ECU Power Off Delay
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2007, 04:23:51 pm »
I did find something mentioned about this in the Wiki, cant find it again for the life of me, i think it was in the developers 'section' somewhere. Basicaly the question was being asked if people require it. I have to say that it looks like people want it :P

Offline Sprocket

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Re: ECU Power Off Delay
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2007, 04:35:44 pm »

Offline miniminor63

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Re: ECU Power Off Delay
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2007, 09:37:53 am »
Just a quick note to say I have gotten feeback from Marcel and Emil about this. Both of them have done it several times, also from the P259 output. Only thing they wanted me to check was that the relays used have a flyback.

How does I exactly go about to check this? I have a brother YH-600B DVM.




Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: ECU Power Off Delay
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2007, 01:26:40 pm »
Well If Marcell and Emil say its okay then thats cool, a flyback diode should bridge the two coil pins like so:



For what its worth you might as well just connect up a diode across the pins to make sure that your relay has flyback protection - the 1N4004 diodes that come in the Rescue pack will be fine for this.