random starting issue

[kloucks]

Hey guys, I've been having some troubles with starting.  I hooked a light up the the spark plugs and it looks like it is only getting spark once out of every three trys or so.  it seems like a firmware thing because as soon as i crank it with spark it will fire right up, but at random it wont send a spark to the plugs. 

Firmware 1.2.11

I can upload my config files or logs if that helps.  Thanks

[mattias]

Config files or more info about what engine and trigger setup you have would _really_ help, in fact it's impossible to say much without it.

I know for a fact that simple trigger with cam sync has had issues. Install latest (not stable) VemsTune and upgrade to 1.2.27 and chances are it will work out better.

[kloucks]

So I updated the firmware to 1.2.27 and it is still doing the random spark thing.  I took a triggerlog, and it looks fine.  It is a BMW M50 turbo, 60-1 VR sensor, no camsync.  60lb injectors.  Thanks for your help!

Config File
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3IiJZVrhgbJNFBmdHJtZ0xOUlU/edit?usp=sharing

Log file
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3IiJZVrhgbJaGg3V05PVjJjUnM/edit?usp=sharing

Triggerlog
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3IiJZVrhgbJeGg3TkZLU3JIMUE/edit?usp=sharing

[VEMS]

Hello Kloucks,

With the configuration you have set now it will indeed fire up around 50% of the time; If you would like to run the engine without camsync you should setup your ignition outputs in pairs using the dual output mode. You currently have the outputs set for individual actuation, this requires camsync.

To solve this:

1) regroup your ignition outputs (prolly involves some rewiring) in dual output mode.

or

2) connect cam sensor signal, enabled it and adjust the reftooth table.

Best regards, Dave

[kloucks]

Bingo.  Thanks, I'll give the camsync a shot.  What are the benefits of camsync? Is it just so it can start faster? Thanks

[VEMS]

Benefits of running cam sync are: Possibility of running per cylinder trims, like per cylinder injection trim, ignition trim and per cylinder knock control; Also firing only the cylinder in spark phase instead of wasted spark reduces coil heating and spark plug wear somewhat although these benefits are negligible.

In the newer firmware's (1.2.27 and up), the starting speed (time between crank sync and first spark) with and without cam sync is the same.

[kloucks]

i updated firmware to 1.2.27 and i started camsync.  I believe my starting issue is resolved, but not it wont stay idling when warm.  Does this happen when changing firmwares?

[mattias]

Make sure this table is filled with 0 :
Tuning - CLT/MAP ignition adjust table.

[kloucks]

Well I got camsync working.  Here is the triggerlog.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3IiJZVrhgbJVl95YWVkWEZ4RzA/edit?usp=sharing

And I also worked out the idle issues by increasing the VE in the idle range.  Now I am back to battling the starting issues.  Below are my config and log files.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3IiJZVrhgbJbklES2RzeUJBcVE/edit?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3IiJZVrhgbJWndEM3NSS0NEUTA/edit?usp=sharing

I have been messing around with the cranking VE and the cranking enrichment curves mostly.  It is very inconsistent though, and once I get it cold started and then stop, it won't hot start.  Does anyone have a good procedure to follow when setting the cranking fuel values?  I originally started the process by throwing a ton of fuel at it, and then once it flooded you start taking a little bit of fuel out.  I think i remember reading that somewhere..  That has just led to a ton of fuel ending up in my pistons and then there was no chance of hot starting it. 

Info on the car
M50 turbo, 6cyl, 60lb injectors, newest firmware and software

Thanks

[VEMS]

Hello Kloucks,

I have reviewed your latest triggerlog / vemscfg; You have indeed successfully configured your ecu (sw configuration wise) for using camsync. But i do not see any camsync pulses in your triggerlog anywhere, are you sure you have a cam sensor present on your engine and wired up ?

Take care, VT provides multiple warnings about the fact there is some problem with your secondary trigger, both in triggerlog "LESS STRIG" trigger error and during running through the default visible isTriggerError flag (more info about its states in help: http://vems.hu/vt/help/v3/flags/trigger_error_flag.html)

So in short:

1) make sure you actually have a HALL CAM sensor on the engine
2) that its wired up to ec36-13
3) verify its operation by taking a triggerlog @cranking like before and make sure there are secondary trigger pulses present.

Best regards, Dave

[kloucks]

Hey guys,  So turns out the cam sensor on my car is originally intended to be sent 12v from the harness.  So the first triggerlog i posted was not utilizing the 5v supply from the ECU, but rather from the harness.  Thinking that this must be the problem, i swapped it to 5v from the vems unit.  and still no secondary pulse.  Do i have to find a hall sensor that is intended for 5v? or did i fry my ecu by sending the 12v to it?

[mattias]

The only thing the sensor does is to short the ground and signal wire. The voltage you feed it is for the logic, be it +5 or 12 Volt.

Remove the sensor from the connector,  enable the triggerlog and manually short the signal and ground, if nothing happens it's not the sensor at fault here.

[kloucks]

Welp.  I shorted the signal and it didn't do anything on my triggerlog.  Any ideas on next steps? are there any tests i can perform on the ecu to see if something is damaged? Thanks

[kloucks]

I took apart my ecu to do some further investigation.  Here are some pics of it. 




it looks like the secondary trigger is configured to VR, not Hall.  Can someone confirm this?  And to make it hall, I just remove that red wire and short those two blobs? Thanks

[VEMS]

Hello Kloucks,

Yes your board is configured for VR. To change this to hall follow the steps outline on: http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=GenBoard/Manual/InputTriggerHardWare (section v3.6 or newer, above first pic) make sure not to forget to remove SJ7 solderblob from the bottom side of board (section below first pic).

Best regards, Dave