Too man primary triggers and secondary trigger error - trigger log attached

[fphil]

As shown by my post about "injector voltage compensation", actually I do pay attention to the PW time 

Grant, I noticed that in in your log 'Injector RampUp" is 0.5ms, battery compensation @14V is +0.1 ms (??) for a PW total time of 2ms à 2500rpm. Hence the speed density rule enters for only 63% of the total time.
This seems very strange to me. But I may be wrong. Indeed this makes the low load part of the VE map quite useless and in any case too rich.

( btw Does someone knows any technical reference for this "traditional" strategy.
Where injector closing time or "injector Rampdown" taking into account. What are the physical differences for an injector self between closing and opening?)

[Grant]

Hi Dave,

There is NO LAMBDA SENSOR hooked up yet =) 

I still have an external AEM Wideband that I am referencing. 

As far as the injector opening times, I know nothing about that.  How does it only effect the ve table 63%? If you have any suggested base line value to use I am all ears.  The injector config was mostly just what was in the default config file. 

The injectors are 250cc injectors I believe (even though I have it set as 195cc) and are high Z injectors.

Dave, is there any information I can try and provide?  The mixture is in the 11.9-14.0 AFR range for 80% of the map, and not where I'm having trouble with the engine cutting out.

Thanks!

[VEMS]

Hello Grant,

Thats handy info, it was assumed the lambda reading from your log file was the actual measured value. I'll do a more extensive review when i have a bit more time.

Regards, Dave

[fphil]

Hello Grant

"As far as the injector opening times, I know nothing about that.  How does it only effect the ve table 63%? If you have any suggested base line value to use I am all ears.  The injector config was mostly just what was in the default config file.  "

I read those values that form  the VT view "Calc Model", where battery compentation is added after the speed density value to give the totla PW time. As you can guess from my post "injector voltage compensation", I do know much how to handle this correction

[Grant]

I will still pull a log file of cranking with coil packs hooked up, and with coil packs turned off.  I can also do the same with injectors hooked up and turned off as well.

Thanks!
Grant

PS, coils are grounded to the head individually and power wire originates form the firewall.  The injector power goes all the way back to the ECU area and is run along side the VR wires.  VR wires are shielded, shield is hooked up to ground on one end. 

[Grant]

Hi Dave,

The I've mapped the car some more, it seems to drive pretty well.  There doesn't seem to be as much power after 7000rpm for a 280 duration camshaft as I would expect, but that could be from other factors other than trigger. 

Below is a data log of me sitting and "blipping" the throttle right off idle.  This is where the engine stumbles and loses trigger badly:

http://www.vems.hu/files/GrantHendricks/v3.3_u008216-2013.12.05-21.23.51.vemslog

Probably not that useful, but here's a log of cranking without firing up....trigger errors while cranking:
http://www.vems.hu/files/GrantHendricks/v3.3_u008216-2013.12.05-21.21.23.vemslog

I  believe this is a trigger log file of me just revving the engine up and down:

http://vems.hu/files/GrantHendricks/v3.3_u008216-2013-12-05-18.35.27.triggerlog

This is cranking with coils connected
http://vems.hu/files/GrantHendricks/v3.3_u008216-2013-12-05-21.17.29.triggerlog

This is cranking with coils disconnected
http://vems.hu/files/GrantHendricks/v3.3_u008216-2013-12-05-21.19.48.triggerlog

Please let me know if there's anything else!

Thank you,
Grant

[mattias]

Change to 1.2.15 or more recent firmware. Simple trigger had issues when used with cam sync. I noticed back in August on my Volvo engine with 4+1 trigger and it was fixed. Issue was very slow to start (or at all) and took many seconds cranking before I saw rpm even though I did see "cranking on" flag turn on from first signal.

You can check the "pump on after powerup", increase that to many more seconds and if you crank the engine immediately it will probably have an easier time starting. Or better yet, upgrade firmware. It might not solve everything ..

You have very short ignition dwell and no scaling with battery voltage. What coils are used?

[fphil]

Just a one cent remark (I am not by far an expert).
I would put the dwell alright, the acc. enrichment = 0 and try first to idle good at 900 rpm. I noticed that the IACint could be for a while at about -49, actual rpm about 760 with IACTarget 900.
(the IACInt value may be allowed to keep increasing or decreasing over the increase and decrease limits, that is behind the scene )

[Grant]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for looking over the files I posted.

I didn't realize I wasn't using the latest firmware!  I will try looking for the version you posted and see how that goes.  The car seems to drive well other than the stumbling at quick throttle openings.

Coil dwell is low as I just wanted to get the car running safely.  I don't know what ideal coil dwell is yet as I haven't researched.  Coils are Toyota 1NZ coil packs (smart coils) from a Toyota Yaris/Vitz.  We are driving them directly with logic level outputs off the VEMS board, no FETs are installed on the ignition out puts!

Accel enrichment seems fine, I have the fueling pretty good right now. 

IAC is not used...I just have the ITB's cracked open at idle, and idle speed is controlled by ignition advance/retard.

Thanks!

[Grant]

Just to get a little more personal, here is the car and the engine bay:







280 duration cams, $1600 USD header (work of art), and a few other upgrades.  Engine has a full ITG filter set up now. 

This is a customer car, not mine.  I wish I had a car this nice. 
Thanks for the help so far guys.

[Grant]

Just an update: 

Upgraded to latest firmware 2.17 I think it was, and that did not solve the problem.   

It is interesting to note that when bench testing this distributor, there were no trigger issues.  I actually took the distributor out a couple of days ago, spun it with a drill (injectors unplugged) and got trigger errors right in the 1-2K rpm range where I have been having the most trouble.  It does this regardless of the direction I spin the drill. 

I'm wondering if I'm getting too much noise from the coil packs?  Power for them is provided from the firewall, and the CAS wiring is properly shielded and grounded on one end.

[Grant]

Firmware upgrade tool is very slick, this is a far cry from my1.1.44alpha release and megatune days when I started using VEMS in 2009!

[gunni]

Just an update: 

Upgraded to latest firmware 2.17 I think it was, and that did not solve the problem.   

It is interesting to note that when bench testing this distributor, there were no trigger issues.  I actually took the distributor out a couple of days ago, spun it with a drill (injectors unplugged) and got trigger errors right in the 1-2K rpm range where I have been having the most trouble.  It does this regardless of the direction I spin the drill. 

I'm wondering if I'm getting too much noise from the coil packs?  Power for them is provided from the firewall, and the CAS wiring is properly shielded and grounded on one end.

Try repeating your test with the coils unplugged.
That would indicate a relationship between the coils and  your missfires.

[Grant]

Good idea, I'll give that a go.