Author Topic: Changing injector sizes in megatune  (Read 19095 times)

Offline irishtwincam

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Changing injector sizes in megatune
« on: January 29, 2007, 08:33:23 pm »
Using 295cc high impedance injectors instead of 214cc high impedance injectors.
How do I reconfigure the new injector sizes?

I know theres a formula to work out which gives me some number to put in a dialog box
but megatune help refers to "injector flow" which I cant find in the UI?

Offline dnb

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Re: Changing injector sizes in megatune
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2007, 08:46:11 pm »
You need to change the "Req Fuel" item in Megatune.  Multiply the value it is now by the ratio of injector sizes so that it gets smaller:

New_req_fuel = Old_req_fuel * (214/295) 

This should get you started.  There may well be fine tuning as the new injectors will atomise the fuel differently.

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: Changing injector sizes in megatune
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2007, 08:57:25 pm »
The key field is Req_fuel from which the injector pulsewidths are calculated from.
In MegaTune this is found in the window launched from the Menu Settings->Basic Settings

The full details on the req_fuel stuff are on the UserGuide, but the basic equation is:

req_fuel = 6.49 * (D / N / I)
D engine displacement (cc)
N number of injectors (eg. 4 for a 4 cyl port injection)
I injector flowrate (cc/min)


So thats 6.49*(1600/4/295) = 8.8
And your old req_fuel will have been
6.49*(1600/4/214) = 12.13

In reality the tuning never follows a logical path becuase its common practice to half these numbers and double the values on the VE table as it gives double resolution in respect to the calculation of pulsewidth.
Although this practice is fading out now that we get such awesome control with the transient voltage supression diode :)

Rob

Offline cliffb75

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Re: Changing injector sizes in megatune
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2007, 09:34:09 pm »
we get such awesome control with the transient voltage supression diode :)

Rob

In simple speak please Rob?  ;D

Offline dnb

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Re: Changing injector sizes in megatune
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2007, 09:56:55 pm »
We put a transient suppressor diode in the flyback wire, and this makes the injectors close considerably faster - thus better defined control.

I didn't believe it until I tried it.

Offline Tony C

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Re: Changing injector sizes in megatune
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2007, 04:05:13 pm »
this an after thought?
or has my vems already have this installed????

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Offline dnb

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Re: Changing injector sizes in megatune
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2007, 04:15:09 pm »
It's an afterthought.  No idea if you have it - Does your fuel map look lumpy or not?

Offline Tony C

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Re: Changing injector sizes in megatune
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2007, 05:22:13 pm »
i wouldn't say lumpy, you want me to send you the .msq file?

Vems Ecu, Twin Plenum efi and N2o
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Vems Firmware: V1.1.74

Offline dnb

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Re: Changing injector sizes in megatune
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2007, 05:37:40 pm »
Please do - it should tell me if you have the mod or not...

Offline Tony C

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Re: Changing injector sizes in megatune
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2007, 06:19:17 pm »
once the laptop has charged will mail over tonight, cheers Dave,

Vems Ecu, Twin Plenum efi and N2o
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Sponsored by: www.caprisport.com & www.interpart.biz
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Vems Firmware: V1.1.74

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: Changing injector sizes in megatune
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2007, 07:13:44 pm »
I can confidently say that your setup doesnt have the diode mod, it has the power flyback board which gave pretty good results.

Offline cliffb75

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Re: Changing injector sizes in megatune
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2007, 09:22:07 pm »
Ok, so here we go with the dumb questions. Please bear with me as my backgound is mechanical engineering, not electronics, but I want to understand this stuff.  ;D


Good old wikipedia says....

Transient voltage suppression (TVS) diodes
These are avalanche diodes designed specifically to protect other semiconductor devices from high-voltage transients. Their p-n junctions have a much larger cross-sectional area than those of a normal diode, allowing them to conduct large currents to ground without sustaining damage.

Avalanche diodes
Diodes that conduct in the reverse direction when the reverse bias voltage exceeds the breakdown voltage. These are electrically very similar to Zener diodes, and are often mistakenly called Zener diodes, but break down by a different mechanism, the avalanche effect. This occurs when the reverse electric field across the p-n junction causes a wave of ionization, reminiscent of an avalanche, leading to a large current. Avalanche diodes are designed to break down at a well-defined reverse voltage without being destroyed. The difference between the avalanche diode (which has a reverse breakdown above about 6.2 V) and the Zener is that the channel length of the former exceeds the 'mean free path' of the electrons, so there are collisions between them on the way out. The only practical difference is that the two types have temperature coefficients of opposite polarities.

So if I get this, you're effectively allowing the voltage generated by the injector closing to disperse through the diode into the flyback wire, which helps it close as there is no 'resistance' (not in the electrical sense) to it closing, because the specific type of diode can cope with a large current?

But what is the flyback wire? and what does it connect to? just Ground?

Offline dnb

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Re: Changing injector sizes in megatune
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2007, 09:52:42 pm »
Flyback goes to +12v

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: Changing injector sizes in megatune
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2007, 10:25:32 pm »
Ok, so here we go with the dumb questions. Please bear with me as my backgound is mechanical engineering, not electronics, but I want to understand this stuff.  ;D


Good old wikipedia says....

Transient voltage suppression (TVS) diodes
These are avalanche diodes designed specifically to protect other semiconductor devices from high-voltage transients. Their p-n junctions have a much larger cross-sectional area than those of a normal diode, allowing them to conduct large currents to ground without sustaining damage.

Avalanche diodes
Diodes that conduct in the reverse direction when the reverse bias voltage exceeds the breakdown voltage. These are electrically very similar to Zener diodes, and are often mistakenly called Zener diodes, but break down by a different mechanism, the avalanche effect. This occurs when the reverse electric field across the p-n junction causes a wave of ionization, reminiscent of an avalanche, leading to a large current. Avalanche diodes are designed to break down at a well-defined reverse voltage without being destroyed. The difference between the avalanche diode (which has a reverse breakdown above about 6.2 V) and the Zener is that the channel length of the former exceeds the 'mean free path' of the electrons, so there are collisions between them on the way out. The only practical difference is that the two types have temperature coefficients of opposite polarities.

So if I get this, you're effectively allowing the voltage generated by the injector closing to disperse through the diode into the flyback wire, which helps it close as there is no 'resistance' (not in the electrical sense) to it closing, because the specific type of diode can cope with a large current?

But what is the flyback wire? and what does it connect to? just Ground?


When the coil closes the electrical energy that has been holding the pintle open discharges, like an ignition coil it stores the energy the coil was charged with, unlike an ignition coil it doesnt have a discharge path unless we provide one.  You may have seen a flyback diode in use across diodes as a spike protector?  The wire is simply the path for it to discharge, and it connects to a whole bunch of diodes inside the VEMS unit.
It connects to the same +12v supply as drives the injectors.

Rob

Offline Tony C

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Re: Changing injector sizes in megatune
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2007, 10:29:47 pm »
I can confidently say that your setup doesnt have the diode mod, it has the power flyback board which gave pretty good results.

Cheers Rob,  ;)

Vems Ecu, Twin Plenum efi and N2o
13.314 @ 104.39 mph (10/06/07 3.9 v8)
Sponsored by: www.caprisport.com & www.interpart.biz
Web site: http://www.capriracing.co.uk

Vems Firmware: V1.1.74