Firmware upgrade

[Bcup]

Hi all!

First let me just say that I'm a recent user of this forum and in tuning Vems ECU's.
I have experience in tuning Megasquirt ECU's.

I'm tuning a friend's Citroen boosted Saxo VTS with Vems ECU that he has bought from DP Engineering.
The ECU is a V3 and it has came with the firmware version 1.1.64.
I have managed to tune the idle, not perfect but acceptable, and the low kpas of the VE table and the car was drivable.

Then I decided to upgrade the firmware, because I read that the versions 1.1.6x wasn't that good.
I upgraded to version 1.1.70 and uploaded the config that I was using in version 1.1.64 and then the problems started.
Now the idle is very bad and the rpm very high, even if I lower the ignition to 5 degrees, close the IAC valve and with the AFR showing 15.5, the engine stil revs at +/- 2000 rpm and I can't lower it.
Also the car was very smooth when I hit the throttle and now is very weird and sometimes backfires a litle bit.
Another thing is that I think the coolant gauge is not showing the right temperature.

Don't understand what happend. I just upgraded the firmware.
Can someone explain what I'm doing wrong or what's happening?

Thanks in advance.

I think I've managed to watch your 1.1.96 config. I had broken VT installation on my job PC.

I can't find somewhat wrong comparing to your 1.1.6x one.

But anyway - there is some issues:
As I mention - required fuel. Some enrichment values is scaling of required fuel: cranking, warmup, acceleration...
I suggest to check ignition timing. Because 1.1.6x was not officially supported f/w.
My suggestion is also switch to "simplified" injector lag compensation and write there some reasonable values. Better - find real ones.
EGO step size should be 1%. Cycles - usually 4...10. Speed limit 40...64. You can use closed loop also under boost if you have no undersized exhaust (pressure disturbs signal). You will find faster O2 sampling in 1.2.0 - migration here is easy comparing to your 1.1.6x->1.1.96 case.
MAP sensor range is 413 and offset 3...4.
Check wide band calibration.
Coolant and MAT temperatures. Here you can use patch files (tools->firmware->patch upload) or use own curve. Second option give more flexibility.
VE table is not tuned. And probably it will be very hard task with those cams. May be better to choose Alpha-N strategy with MAP compensation under boost. Best - change the cams. With correct required fuel you will not see there values higher than 120. If higher required - means defect: pump, pressure regulator, injecors 100% duty...
Igniton table generally is ok. load range is sufficient? Dragrace require much more boost!
MAP/TPS table is dangerous. In real life it is not so sloppy. You can import one from default configs and start from there.
Acceleration dtps map is terribly wrong. Small movement should mean little additional  fuel.
Low rpms require more RPM acceleration values, high RPMs - less.
Stepper. Try in open loop (PID zeroed) - does stepper gives enough flow to change something. Most of correction will be upon to ignition.


Boost control. Do you use it?
Speed sensor?
SD card?

Gints

Yes I use boost control and speed sensor.
SD Card no.

I will update to version 1.2.0.
Required fuel - Going to lower to 4.
Ignition timing - Why do you say to check that?
Coolant and MAT temperatures - I have patched them when I update the firmware but they have so many options that I don't really know what to choose much less making my own curve. In MS I have specific values to calibrate this sensors.
Load range - The owner wants to make 250 kpas of boost

The rest I will try what you've said.

Thanks.

[GintsK]

Yes I use boost control and speed sensor.
SD Card no.

I will update to version 1.2.0.
Required fuel - Going to lower to 4.
Ignition timing - Why do you say to check that?
Coolant and MAT temperatures - I have patched them when I update the firmware but they have so many options that I don't really know what to choose much less making my own curve. In MS I have specific values to calibrate this sensors.
Load range - The owner wants to make 250 kpas of boost

The rest I will try what you've said.

Thanks.

Then you have to fill Boost  control windows with reasonable values. Also here you can start with PID zeroed.
What w-gate type?

Did you multiplied the VE map after req.f change?

Ignition - because you had non-official firmware before. And engine running changes after upgrade.

Temperature curves is bit painful thing for VEMS, yes. But usually curves is close to BOSCH default. For VAG 1.8T air sensor I often use 1900/256 patch.

Ignition map goes only up to 220kpa. You need more than expected boost level to add some safety.

[Bcup]

Then you have to fill Boost  control windows with reasonable values. Also here you can start with PID zeroed.
What w-gate type?

Did you multiplied the VE map after req.f change?

Ignition - because you had non-official firmware before. And engine running changes after upgrade.

Temperature curves is bit painful thing for VEMS, yes. But usually curves is close to BOSCH default. For VAG 1.8T air sensor I often use 1900/256 patch.

Ignition map goes only up to 220kpa. You need more than expected boost level to add some safety.

It's a dual port external wastegate.

I still haven´t made the change in required fuel.
Going to do it tonight. When I made the change I have to incresase the VE table.

[Bcup]

The MSD ignition now only sparks the first and fourth cylinder.
I have checked connections, swaped cables and the MSD coil and still the same.

Can this be hapenning because of some worng parameter of the ECU?
The ignition outputs maybe?!?

[GintsK]

Does triggerlog shows all four spark events?

Under ignition outputs you can find test mode and visual represantation of connector/outputs.

[Bcup]

Hi GintsK.

I have tryed test mode but it wasn't working, don't know why. 
I've turn it on and then push the test button on the output I want to test but nothing.

I haven't try triggerlog because like I said I have no experience ins Vems ECU's and with Vemstune and I didn't know that is possible to see the spark events in that.
But I will try it.

Thnaks.

[Bcup]

Gintsk can you check the trigger log for me, please,  to see if it shows all 4 spark events.
I don't understand it. 

http://www.sendspace.com/file/f824cg

Thanks.

[GintsK]

Yes, it shows. 2 events per rev = 4 events per cycle. Correct.

What type of MSD?

[Bcup]

I have the MSD coil with pn8241.

So it's nothing with the parameters of the ecu or with the outputs?

[GintsK]

I do not see anything wrong. Dwell is shorter. But anyway...

So you can check the outputs by inverting them. With coil not connected!!!
At this state best way is t check outputs with some significant current. E.g 60W bulb.

During firmware change did you disconnected the coil? It could be damaged if was connected. Sometimes, especially for older firmwares outputs went to random state.

[Bcup]

Yes I have disconnected the coil when I updated the firmware.

The car went to the owner, so he could check what's going on and it seems it was the msd coil that's broken.

Tomorrow I will receive the car to start tuning again.

Thanks GintsK for all your help until now.

[Bcup]

I have the car again and now it's much better.

I have followed the advices that GintsK suggested.
The idle is now at 1200/1300 rpm with PID disable and ignition control disable.

I enable ignition control and use the values that GintsK suggested "+/- 12deg with 45deg/256rpm" but nothing happens. It stays the same.
Anyone know why this don't work?

GintsK you also said to "fill Boost control windows with reasonable values". But what are reasonable values. Can you give me some values please?

Also would like to know how to change from lambda table to AFR table because I'm accustomed to see AFR values and I can't change it.

Thanks.

[GintsK]

Nothing happens - probably your TPS value is above idle treshold. No?

For boost: boost target (it has no influence with PID zeroed), bias DC table (low values at beginning). If you want to use separate boost for each gear -  it is possible to define separate tables for each gear. Both tables.

You can go with PID from begging. Try P/I/D  100/20/70 as start point. Integral limit 100. TPS weight 200. Fill also TPS table - very useful for cars with limited traction. - It will scale down target boost and also DC together with TPS weight value.
Boost by gear require working and calibarted speed sensor values.

For AFR - go to File->Firmware parameters and change USEAFR147 to 1. Restart VT. But remember AFR is technically valid only for gasoline. But Lambda is universal value for any fuel. AFR causes confusion once you start to use any other fuels.

Gints

[Bcup]

Nothing happens - probably your TPS value is above idle treshold. No?

But the IAC light comes on when the car is idling.
If the TPS was above idle threshold the IAC light come on?

[GintsK]

.vemslog  please.