Firmware upgrade

[Bcup]

Hi all!

First let me just say that I'm a recent user of this forum and in tuning Vems ECU's.
I have experience in tuning Megasquirt ECU's.

I'm tuning a friend's Citroen boosted Saxo VTS with Vems ECU that he has bought from DP Engineering.
The ECU is a V3 and it has came with the firmware version 1.1.64.
I have managed to tune the idle, not perfect but acceptable, and the low kpas of the VE table and the car was drivable.

Then I decided to upgrade the firmware, because I read that the versions 1.1.6x wasn't that good.
I upgraded to version 1.1.70 and uploaded the config that I was using in version 1.1.64 and then the problems started.
Now the idle is very bad and the rpm very high, even if I lower the ignition to 5 degrees, close the IAC valve and with the AFR showing 15.5, the engine stil revs at +/- 2000 rpm and I can't lower it.
Also the car was very smooth when I hit the throttle and now is very weird and sometimes backfires a litle bit.
Another thing is that I think the coolant gauge is not showing the right temperature.

Don't understand what happend. I just upgraded the firmware.
Can someone explain what I'm doing wrong or what's happening?

Thanks in advance.

[mattias]

I would upgrade to at least 1.1.96 using the latest VemsTune from 2012-11-02.

Then get it running and/or even if you don't,  publish the config and/or vemslog (log contains config) and a triggerlog (Tools menu at the bottom) using the built-in reporting tool in VemsTune (see Help menu).

Nobody uses these old firmwares anymore (1.1.70, etc..) and more recent firmwares provide more information in the datalogs to help solve issues.

[Bcup]

Ok I will do that.
Thanks.

[mattias]

And to avoid problems at the start, I would disable things like :
- EGO correction (set enlean/enrich to 0%)
- IAC PID control (set integral increase/decrease to 0)
- Ignition advance control (has a disable option)
- Overrun fuel cut (set cut/resume to 25500 rpm)

That's a good start to figuring out the basic fuel and ignition issues.

[Bcup]

Here are the logs.
The first log is with all the things enable.
The second is with all the things disable.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/g91fnj

http://www.sendspace.com/file/k9qz2v

[GintsK]

I downloaded the first one.

For some reason ignition table is from TPS and with wrong scaling.

Also VE table is strange.  It never looks like this. I mean high boost/rpm corner. If VE is high at those rpms it also represents at lover loads. 

My VT crashes when I want to look lambda target table. Try to share .vemsconfig file.

Can you comment in more details what engine setup is used. Camshaft. Injectors. Turbo.

Gints

[Bcup]

The car have a T4 turbo with A/R 78, 630cc siemens injectors, inlet and exhaust manifold from DP Engineering.
Also have mechanical camshafts but don't know exactly wich ones.

Later today I will share the config file.

If you download the second log that I share, you will see that in that log with all the things disable (EGO, IAC PID, Ignition advance, overun fuel cut) the car is idling fine and was fine for a little while and all of a sudden, even though I have done nothing, the rpm droped and the the engine stalls.
Now he can't maintain idle.
I have enabled IAC PID and Ignition advance but is the same, the engine can't maintain idle and stalls.
Seems that this don't do nothing... don't know why...

For instance, if I turn ignition advance on I should see ignition gauge moving like crazy to try compensate, at least that's what's happen on Megasquirts.
Here on VEMS the advance is always on the value that is defined on the ignition table.
Also seems that the stepper motor doesn't do what I want...

[Bcup]

Here is the config file that I'm using.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/bz9fcu

Why do you say that ignition table is from TPS?
I've been checking and ignition table is RPM/MAP.

[GintsK]

It is 1.1.64 config. Can you share also 1.1.96 one? Here ignition is OK. But something is wrong with 1.1.96.

Is it 1600cc engine?

I do not like MAP value at idle. For turbo engine idling at 1600rpm 56kPa. 75kPa@950rpm. Huge valve overlap? Can you check cam timing to be sure?
Idle is rough always?

You can check stepper function by dismounting it. Then under tools->iac lock you can try to move it. More steps - wider opening.

     

[Bcup]

Yes it's a 1600cc 16 valves engine.

The camshafts are the Piper PK5. You can check the details of the camshafts here http://www.pipercams.co.uk/pipercams/www/product.php?pid=PK5.

[Bcup]

So sorry. 

The camshafts are the newman PH5 and the details are here http://www.newman-cams.com/pdf/citroen.pdf

[GintsK]

So sorry. 

The camshafts are the newman PH5 and the details are here http://www.newman-cams.com/pdf/citroen.pdf

Ouch! I am not familiar with particular engine. But IMHO those cams are overkill for any 16V turbo engine! 290deg with 104/106deg max lift angles and 3.4/3.7mm opening (!) at TDC...

Last values means lack of idle (without ITBs). During idling even moderate vacuum in intake plenum creates backflow from exhaust manifold trough combustion chamber to intake. And engine breathes own fumes. And big valve overlap is not for turbo! Because same effect takes place as exhaust pressure rises up and over intake pressure value. I would try to retime exhaust cam closer to 115deg from TDC. Look at this page with timing values (under specs) and descriptions:
http://www.camshaftshop.com/products.php?categoryid=75

Stepper I think is almost useless. Ok it can give some help. But most effect here for idle stability you can expect from very aggressive ignition idle aid. Like +/- 12deg with 45deg/256rpm. And I think ~1500rpm is lowest idle what you can hope on.

1600cc. Your required fuel is calculated wrong (hit F1). I suggest to rescale it together with VE table. Some of us use even twice lower r.fuel as calculated. It gives better resolution for VE map. Similar as MS.

What about 1.1.96 config?

Car is purely for dragracing? Or?

Gints

[Bcup]

This cams are for a non turbo car but the owner decided to keep them with the turbo installed.
The car is for dragracing and trackday, I think, not for road.

Today I will share the 1.1.96 config and I will try your values in the ignition idle control to see if it gets better.

[Bcup]

Here is the config 1.1.96 that is in the ECU right now.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/087znd

[GintsK]

Hi all!

First let me just say that I'm a recent user of this forum and in tuning Vems ECU's.
I have experience in tuning Megasquirt ECU's.

I'm tuning a friend's Citroen boosted Saxo VTS with Vems ECU that he has bought from DP Engineering.
The ECU is a V3 and it has came with the firmware version 1.1.64.
I have managed to tune the idle, not perfect but acceptable, and the low kpas of the VE table and the car was drivable.

Then I decided to upgrade the firmware, because I read that the versions 1.1.6x wasn't that good.
I upgraded to version 1.1.70 and uploaded the config that I was using in version 1.1.64 and then the problems started.
Now the idle is very bad and the rpm very high, even if I lower the ignition to 5 degrees, close the IAC valve and with the AFR showing 15.5, the engine stil revs at +/- 2000 rpm and I can't lower it.
Also the car was very smooth when I hit the throttle and now is very weird and sometimes backfires a litle bit.
Another thing is that I think the coolant gauge is not showing the right temperature.

Don't understand what happend. I just upgraded the firmware.
Can someone explain what I'm doing wrong or what's happening?

Thanks in advance.

I think I've managed to watch your 1.1.96 config. I had broken VT installation on my job PC.

I can't find somewhat wrong comparing to your 1.1.6x one.

But anyway - there is some issues:
As I mention - required fuel. Some enrichment values is scaling of required fuel: cranking, warmup, acceleration...
I suggest to check ignition timing. Because 1.1.6x was not officially supported f/w.
My suggestion is also switch to "simplified" injector lag compensation and write there some reasonable values. Better - find real ones.
EGO step size should be 1%. Cycles - usually 4...10. Speed limit 40...64. You can use closed loop also under boost if you have no undersized exhaust (pressure disturbs signal). You will find faster O2 sampling in 1.2.0 - migration here is easy comparing to your 1.1.6x->1.1.96 case.
MAP sensor range is 413 and offset 3...4.
Check wide band calibration.
Coolant and MAT temperatures. Here you can use patch files (tools->firmware->patch upload) or use own curve. Second option give more flexibility.
VE table is not tuned. And probably it will be very hard task with those cams. May be better to choose Alpha-N strategy with MAP compensation under boost. Best - change the cams. With correct required fuel you will not see there values higher than 120. If higher required - means defect: pump, pressure regulator, injecors 100% duty...
Igniton table generally is ok. load range is sufficient? Dragrace require much more boost!
MAP/TPS table is dangerous. In real life it is not so sloppy. You can import one from default configs and start from there.
Acceleration dtps map is terribly wrong. Small movement should mean little additional  fuel.
Low rpms require more RPM acceleration values, high RPMs - less.
Stepper. Try in open loop (PID zeroed) - does stepper gives enough flow to change something. Most of correction will be upon to ignition.


Boost control. Do you use it?
Speed sensor?
SD card?

Gints