Author Topic: Classic Mini 1400 TBi  (Read 39182 times)

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: Classic Mini 1400 TBi
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2007, 09:45:25 pm »
Dear god, I'm not an imperialist.

Metric units everytime, but my point is... Which one to choose from?

Offline Sprocket

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Re: Classic Mini 1400 TBi
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2007, 06:30:58 pm »
Lol sorry dude, I didnt mean to offend ;) :P

As for which ones, it has to be Bar and KPa. The two are easily refferable across. 1 bar is 100Kpa, 50MilliBar is 5 kpa . I use nothing else at work even when talking about deep vacumm, Screw the Micron vacuum scale, thats just for scientists dealing with perfect vacuum and wanting to sound flash down the pub :D

You got to love matric for its simplicity ;D

Anyway, back on subject.

I went for a drive last night with VE learn enabled. Is this slow or is it me? I drove around for about an hour and managed to get the low load sites pretty good and drove well, but i thin because im using such a big injector that the calculated VE table especialy at the higher load sites are still way off the mark. if i tried to keep the speed going up a slight hill the lambda went off the scale rich. LOL I need to knock the VE entries back about 20% and have a co driver on the Megatune ;D

I am a happy man ;D its all down to numbers now, oh and sorting out the knock sensor. LOL I'll have to start again with the 16v but at least i should be closer than i was when i started out :)

Offline Sprocket

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Re: Classic Mini 1400 TBi
« Reply #17 on: July 08, 2007, 11:16:51 pm »
Following on from the 16 valver thread as I have now put this 1400 back in the car and took it to the mapping session intended for the 16v :-\

What fun was had getting it all back up and running. Infact i managed a good 2 foot flame out the exhaust, LOL. What had caused that was i left the hi flow fuel pump in the tank that i had fitted for the 16v. I had also fitted a smaller injector. I thought id try it and see if it wasnt going to be a problem, how wrong!! swapped out the pump, fitted the bigger injector and uploaded the original config  i new was good to go on this set up. LOL first crank and it fired.

Im still concerned that the injector is too big, and the idle pulse width shows this at 1.4ms and also the VE map after mapping doesnt really get above 30. It drives real well though. Im going to try the smaller injector which is 10% smaller so, i presume i can scale up the VE map by 10% and hopefuly the idle PW will come up with it. Im going to fit a standard size TB as the modified one now gives 2% TPS at idle and drops to 1% at worst. Im having some issues when i dip the clutch at a junction, the engine stalls, and theres now hesitation about it, it just stops. Starting it is also a little difficult so I know the crank and afterstart settings need looking at. I think the stalling is not being helped by the low PW and 1% TPS. I'll start another thread about that.

Another thing that im a little concerned with is the EGO conrrection, it seems to be running the Lambda a little lean at crusing speeds and not bring it into line. The lower end of the VE map I need to tweek but its not too bad, some areas wer left as time was getting on.

At the end of it all, its not going to det, and im getting 14 lbft more torque than i had on the OEM ECU, its down by 5bhp but im not concerned with that as this dyno can not be compared to a rolling road. everything is happening just that bit lower in the rpm as well which is good, i dont have to rev the balls off it to get it.

Results, Flywheel power 95 bhp, flywheel torque 101 lbft, bhp at the wheels 80 bhp, torque at the wheels 86 lbft (460 lbft measured in third). It drives much better than the OEM ECU and deffo feels a hell of a lot quicker, but i do now have a lightened crank and ultra light flywheel in there. This may account for the bigger torque numbers and lower down the rpm?? Off to the drag strip to actuly see if it is quicker :P

The ignition map is what was generated at the same time when using the VE calculator, it was there when i looked at the table, looked pretty good and the dyno operator said it was pretty good also, only needing a couple of extra degrees at the top end, nothing more was gained worth worying about by going further. The map does look pretty representative for the old A series :D

Lambda map again is pretty standard,

















« Last Edit: July 08, 2007, 11:30:35 pm by Sprocket »

Offline Bat

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Re: Classic Mini 1400 TBi
« Reply #18 on: July 08, 2007, 11:37:06 pm »
Hi,
101 lb ft is good going! 8) My 1380, 286, 45 DCOE is only 92!
Like you say there's no two rollers/dyno going to read the same anyway!
Cheers,
Gavin :)
VEMs Authorised Installer / Re-seller. K head kits for A series now available!

WB/EGT gauges. Click here for customers write-up 

Visit www.doyouneedabrain.co.uk

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: Classic Mini 1400 TBi
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2007, 08:56:24 am »
Nice results.

I'm interested in the issue you're reporting regarding the lambda correction, does VEMS report that its lambda 1.0 or does it know that its at 1.x and is not putting more fuel in?  Are you using the correct wideband settings ( http://www.vems.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=55.0 ), IIRC you built your own board did you get the pump pw zero and nerst values 100%

Rob

Offline miniminor63

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Re: Classic Mini 1400 TBi
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2007, 10:55:48 am »
Nice results there! That type of dyno is the one I am going to use when I am getting mine mapped too, did you feel it was better than a RR?

Offline cliffb75

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Re: Classic Mini 1400 TBi
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2007, 08:36:02 pm »
That all looks nice. Good smooth curves, if a bit strangled at the top end. Do you have any provision for altering the cam timing to see if you can free up some high end horses, or do you think its something else?

One point on your target lambda map. You've got the right kind of numbers for high RPM, but at low rpm the engine won't be making the full 100kpa at WOT. Therefore you need to plot the WOT pressure line across the map, and then enter the target 0.86 along that line, and blend back to your cruise sites from there. Just a small point, but will help you pick up a little bit more low end torque. And if you're detonation limited at lower speeds, the extra fuel will help and maybe allow you to advance the ignition a bit too, so even more torque. :)

Nice work so far  :)

Offline Sprocket

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Re: Classic Mini 1400 TBi
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2007, 12:24:23 am »
Nice results.

I'm interested in the issue you're reporting regarding the lambda correction, does VEMS report that its lambda 1.0 or does it know that its at 1.x and is not putting more fuel in?  Are you using the correct wideband settings ( http://www.vems.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=55.0 ), IIRC you built your own board did you get the pump pw zero and nerst values 100%

Rob

The sensor is reading correct, what i meant was that the lambda reading is way off the lambda target and doesnt seem to pull it back into line.

However having said that, I checked the factory defaults for WBO2 and found the Heater PID Ri target was set to 50 and not 150, probibly a key stroke mistake or just my dyslexia.

I did build the board and the first thing I did was calibrate the WBO2, it was reading correct. I thought I posted the values used, but maybe not. The sensor is reading right as it was comparable with the WBO2 on the dyno.

If you look at the log files I posted in the other topic about the stalling you should be able to see that at cruise its around 1.19 with a target of 1.00, always seemed to be lean.

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: Classic Mini 1400 TBi
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2007, 10:22:30 am »
I posted on your stalling thread about the EGO correction values, might be worth giving them a try.

Offline Sprocket

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Re: Classic Mini 1400 TBi
« Reply #24 on: July 29, 2007, 05:13:38 pm »
Well, recovering from a week on holiday in the Mini ;D

Covered 1200 miles with only a few minor issues, none really to do with the ECU.

The only real issue was that the engine decided to stop of its own accord, and not restart. This was in the second lane on the River Avon bridge crossing on the M5, on the up side, in busy traffic :D what fun. Managed to push the car and trailer ;D over to the hard shoulder and set about working out what the problem was. This was also the time i noticed the screen started to play up. anyway, cut a long story short, swapped out the injector fuse and we were on our way.

During the week I left the VE learn on and encountered virtualy every driving style, from motorway, round town crawl to single track roads only wide enough for the mini :D with lots of first and second gear corners, hills of varying degrees and length. The VE table is now pretty spot on, though the numbers look a little low and flat. I suspect this is as a result of using a low ohm injector with the resistor, the characteristics of the injector are some what different now. I intend to half the req fuel and double the VE values to give a little better resolution, before trying the PWM, for which im going to try and get hold of some accurate information.

Acceleration enrichments were an issue with AE happening where not required. The mini is quite a bumpy ride and what you would consider a steady foot, is actualy inducing AE with the suggested Acceleration Bins 1 5 20 40. Changing the first two bins to 3 and 7 as suggested by dnb seemed to sort this. The hard acc amounts still need tuning.

Idle is pretty steady though i had to set the idle speed to 950rpm due to the ultralight weight flywheel and high compression. I have been playing with the EGO numbers to get the lambda to be fairly constant only fluctating about 0.07 max above 1.00. It never seams to go below the 1.00 even with the target at 1.00, i assume this is to do with the wideband lambda sensor PID??

Im still encountering the over run situation but no to the point of stall. I have tuned the engine so that its reasonably OK with no load, but in the recent weather with the heater, the wipers and lights on, it is a problem. Idle drops to below 800rpm before the idle PID activates the stepper from its lowest position after over run. Stepper speed set to 5 wich is bloody quick. IT is a problem!!! >:( Its not how the OEM working and i feel it needs resolving by the powers that be :-*

Other than that system works a charm ;D

Over the 1200 miles 650 of those with an extra 300kg payload/trailer fuel consumption averaged 36mpg, remembering that this has a 3.76:1 final drive where 60mph is 4000rpm. I dont think that is bad considdering the extra weight and is only down 2mpg from the OEM ecu without the extra weight of the luggage and trailer :D

Oh, one thing a really do need to sort is the coolant temp bins, or at least double check. The engine temp when driving is 80 yet i know the cooling fan switch comes on at 97, the VEMS indicates 86. TBH i havent realy calibrated this, oopsie ::) this will no doubt screw up all my crank, afterstart and warm up enrichments, after getting them pretty spot on ::) :-X ::) ::)

Im gooing to also have a play with full throttle shift and launch control whel i get the clutch switch fitted ;D ;D

still ongoing ;D