from Siemens Deka to EV14 on 1.1.95

[AVP]

I will be changing injectors shortly from the Siemens Deka 630cc to EV14 which are 60lb or 650cc according to their spec.

On 1.1.95 i can see that i have the option of either keeping the tradicional settings and just making an adjustment on req_fuel (do i have to also change the injector flow rate? or it doesnt make a difference?) OR go with the simple settings and plug in all the EV14 ms on specific volts.

What i would like to know is:

1) On the simple settings: is there interpolation between the battery volts and delivery of fuel in ms?
2) If i keep the tradicional settings (i have a rampup of 192 now) and only change the Req_fuel to compansate so that VE table does not need any major tuning again, will VEMS be able to take advantage of the low PW that the EV14 are capable for, or will i have to change the rampup to take advantage of that?

Id like to have a simple and easy solution rather than having to tune the whole VE table all over again, esp. when the injectors are so close in their delivery of fuel according to specs.

thanks!
Vasilis

[stroft]

Siemens Deka are very good injectors, i'm not sure if you'll feel any difference with new ones.
Injector opening characteristics affect only idle and low load parts of the VE table. Adjust req_fuel a little until you are fine in mid and high loads.
Injector flow rate setting i believe does nothing.

1) Yes
2) I personally use simple settings, thats more common in tuning world and easier to understand.

Hope this helps.

[AVP]

i got the EV14 in, but forgot to get the simple settings configured.

from the shop i got the injectors, i have several settings on different volts, and different bar of pressure.

should i use the one closer to my 4bar fuel pressure regulator? or am i supposed to use the 39psi as published by bosch?

[GintsK]

Comparing to bosch 970 and 1000cc Siemens are crap! Really! In terms of idling. At least with our 30V flyback voltage.
For big injectors/cylinder displacement opening characteristics have significant influence to all map. It is good idea to configure opening lag before tuning VE.

1)yes
2)I suggest to configure injector lag as close as possible. And then check VE table anyway.

Injector flow setting has influence just to fuel consumption calculations.

Gints

[AVP]

Thanks Gints,

ill implement those settings today hopefully and log to rebuild the VE table.

[AVP]

with the simple setting inserted my table was way too rich on 3.6 req_fuel and i had to get it down to 2.3 to make any sense on my VE

also i am now getting another validation yellow alert saying that my deadtime us are too high.

from the injector company i got these figures:

8volt     2.55ms = 2550us
10volt   1.70ms = 1700us
12volt   1.20ms = 1200us
14volt   0.92ms = 920us
16volt   0.75ms = 750us

isnt that correct?

[GintsK]

Don't change required fuel! It is multiplicative value!

If you heve so big difference it means old settings was way off or current settings are off...

What is BOSCH p/n?

[AVP]

i wasnt using simplified settings before but tradicional.
my req_fuel was 3.1 before and the injectors had a difference from 630 to 650cc

even if i tried to use 3.1ms, it was still too rich. Of course i could change the idle VE until it became close to the desired 1.00 lamda, but as i have been noticing that the injectors are having quite different characteristics, i would end up redoing the VE table anyway.

[AVP]

i think what i will do is, that once i have the table more or less sorted for the low to 140kpa areas, i will increase the req_fuel back to 3.1 and drop the table as a mass. that way the small in between changes that i now find will be kept and the req_fuel value will be closer to what it should be for the injectors used.

[AVP]

they dont have a bosch part number that i can see of.

the FIC have given me this as part number: IS165-0650H

[boostd audi]

i have used the siemens 80lb for e85 using 5 bar base pressure and they seem to work very well for me.

[AVP]

just had a talk with Marcel

i need to substract from my voltage compensation ms that i am given, the injector closing times.

is that the same as otherwise mentioned: injector dead time or latency?

if that is the case, then does anyone know the EV14 closing time? i read it may be something like 0.7ms @ 14V. Is it the same on all volt?