N/A 4AGE 16V in AE86 - help needed, trying to "VEMS it"

[uzelac]

It lives!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyNiKnJjde4

[boostd audi]

your getting there.. good job. 

[uzelac]

Sounds good to go.  Make sure the trigger sensor mount is solid, should not vibrate much if hit with a wrench, nor be able to move/bend with your hand.

So far it's solid.
I had problems with polarity of sensor, i had to exchange the wires. Looks like polarity for Motronic is VEMS is inverted. Maybe someone will have use of this info

[irishtwincam]

well done

[uzelac]

Not that solid after all .

Car drives, but gets trigger errors in higher revs, 5000+.

What gap should i target, between sensor and wheel ?

ATM it is 1-2mm, haven't measured it really but in my opinion it should be smaller.
I cant imagine that it vibrates, it looks really rigid, but.. who knows

Next week is planed for all those small fixes, list is pretty long but i hope it will be done by the end of week.

[Ignitec]

Gap's not your problem. Search the forum and you'll find it

[uzelac]

I used newest config, 1.96.
Is there something better ? Which one is recommended for alpha-n with crank trigger only?
Thinking to put MAP sensor after all. Since i plan 300 duration camshafts, not sure it is needed, or that it could help.

btw.
I have issues with idle and crank trigger, getting errors.
ITB's aren't synced, that will help with idle, hope to get it below 1000. ~1500rpm now.

[uzelac]

Gap's not your problem. Search the forum and you'll find it

Link ?

[uzelac]

I got some various success regarding mapping.
As someone stated, bas map is pig rich, and so is my car, since i'm only at the begining.

ITB's weren't synchronized, and until i fixed that, i couldn't idle below 2000 rpm.
Now, idle is rough at 950pm, and pretty OK at 1100 rpm.
I'm running w/o MAP sensor, using only TPS and spark cut control which is enabled.

Before i dedicate more time to mapping, i would appreciate help where to begin.

This current state:

4AGE 16v bigport (bluetop) stock short block with exeption of Wiseco pistons (compression ~11:1).
Head is stock, no porting, stock cams (240') 

Injectors Lowz 295cc, coil on plugs, Bosch wideband, 60-2 trigger.
Only primary trigger, no secondary. IAT yes, no knock, no MAP sensor, no idle controling device stepper/motor/whatever..
TPS came with ITBs.

Intake is from Suzuki Hayabusa, ITB's, advertised as 4x52mm. I measured 49mm ID at mouth and 43mm at exit. Intake manifold is custom. (Too big, yeah i know .
Exhaust header is stock, has few leaks, intake is 2" ID with open/pass-through cans. No cat.

At the moment I'm using latest firmware 3.6 board and VemsTune with 1.1.96 config.
Alpha-N, wasted spark, EGO on, spark-cut idle.

I contacted Rob today and he helped with some info.
Suggested to use MAP sensor for barometric correction which
works well in the new firmware versions.

Gave links for two tuning guides written by Jorgen Karlsson:
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=TuningSession%2FOpenloopTuning
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=TuningSession%2FClosedloopTuning

Suggested change for kpa settings - (0,2,5,12,23,35,53,75,115,165,225,255) and lot of detail down at
small throttle openings and less further up.

This part i don't understand.
Since I'm using TPS, i presume i should USE RPM/TPS Fuel VE.
Defaut rows are:
1,5,10,14,16,17,20,23,27,39,63,71,78,82

If i translate what Rob said into TPS 0-100 scale i would get:
0, 1, 2, 5, 9, 14, 21, 29, 45, 65, 88, 100

It makes sense, can someone confirm this ?

Beside, I would really appreciate more beginners info, so I don't lose too much time at basics.

Thanks in advance
Regards

p.s. my current config is here:
http://www.4shared.com/file/5w-lJ3XT/start.html

[rob@vems.co.uk]

I've spoken to Jorgen about this,  the TPS RPM table is correct, and he suggests:

 0,1,3,7,10,18,25,36,48,59,74,90,94,99

For the TPS % scale

I think the key thing to bear in mind is that you will learn by trial and experimentation, there are lots of timing map examples for the 4A-GE around, so  you should be able to get an idea of what values you'll expect and the general "shape" of the map.

[uzelac]

Great day today, finally hours of reading and mining through installation manuals and examples payed off .

- calibrated battery
- installed wideband to better position (~35cm from head, where all 4 pipe merge)
- cleaned injectors
- made some ITBs synchronization progress.
- disabled fuelcut below 2300rpm, works from 2300-4000rpm.
- adjusted rows/columns, now they make more sense
- made OK base for ignition, copy/pasted some stock 4AGE data and adjusted it in regards what i used last year with different EFI/ITB's

Beside, I figured out VE tuning, very important

Car starts OK, afterstart and warmup works good, and when warm finally settles around 1000rpm. No spark/ignition control, no valves, pure TPS. Me very happy! .
Injector pulse is ~1.7ms is that OK ?

I still have issues with short pressing of accelerator pedal, seems ITB's get stuck, so i need to blip throttle once more to settle them at 0.
Not so annoying, I'm used to bliping from last ITB's, they behaved same.

Fuelcut ON below 2000rpm was causing problems with slow/cruise driving. Most cruising is done at 1-5% TPS, and fuelcut is causing driveabilty issues, someone sad that is "transitions from negative to positive torque" is the reason.
Nevertheless, with fuel spraying always below 2300 cruising is much more enjoying, i could almost say that car now offers good city driveability, together with good idling.

Very happy i must say, thanks to many people that contributed on this forum

[uzelac]

I played a little with VE values to get good lambda values but ran into "newest biggest problem".
It seems my O2 is not working that good. At low engine speeds, refresh rate is hmmm... slow ?
It seems there is some lag between vems and O2. That looks like this:


It behaves a little better with higher TPS and revs:


whole log:
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B6eLVO1tr19nMWRmZjNhYTItN2Y1NS00MTRlLTg3YmQtNTNlMDY5NDdjMzZh&hl=en_US

It would be really great if i could get better info from o2, or am I wishing to much ?

[uzelac]

Btw i still get trigger errors in higher rpms, will try to look into that tomorrow.
Everything is fine until 5000-6000rpm, after that, i get errors.
Sensor is soild, maybe i need some filtering ?

Thanks

[peter_jensen]

Hi

Check the tps    signal its wary jumpy. Maybe twist the potentiometer a little and re calibrate it.

Make the VE table smooth so the values don´t rice with +40 % in neighbor cells.

Use Live VE analyser to help you setting up the Ve table.

Set up the lambda control and use it. Min – max to 15% rpm 500- 8000 rpm and keep an eye on the lambda when driving 

I will recommend that you re mount the trigger wheel, it´s not good to have 92 degrees in the tdc after the trigger but 60 is good and adjust with first trigger tooth.

/Peter     

[uzelac]

Will try to smoth table, trying with both Live VE analyzer and statistics.
By lambda control you mean EGO? I tried not to let EGO mess up with VE until i get my VE table more accurate.

Regarding trigger wheel, so i should rotate it 32 degrees ? That's 5 teeth clokwise ?
Before that i will try to play with advanced trigger filtering.

Thanks for help.