Author Topic: Daihatsu Charade GTTi Vems install.  (Read 35684 times)

Offline andreNL

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Daihatsu Charade GTTi Vems install.
« on: December 14, 2010, 08:08:16 am »
Hi, my name is andre and i live in the Netherlands
I have a GTTI as a hobby car where DIY is the key word.
the car is a 3 cilinder 12valve 993cc engine, delivering 107hp standard.
My goal is 180-200 and lots of fun building  ;D

The car gets a pretty basic Vems install with a:
24-1 Hall trigger wheel ( Hall TLE4905L glued 55deg BTDC from the Vems shop)
1 tooth Hall cam sensor ( Hall SS443A glued in the Dizzy 90deg before Missing teeth sensed at cranck)
knock sensor. ( fitted at the rear center of the engineblock Toyota celica turbo sensor)
Ignition through single coil and original distribution setup
WBO2 (Bosch from Vems shop)
Boostvalve control
3 sequential fired injectors
vems also controls the radiator fan and the fuelpump through the original relays and the original dash boost light, tacho and a engine checklight  ;D (P259 channels)


I builded the controler into the original ECU box, and wired the original Loom to the controller.
original V+ comes from the main relay.
Injectors, WBO2 and coil connected to the Injection relay V+
Controller central Mass cable connected to engine head,
and GND and GND5 connected to this cable.

My car has Regrinded Kent cams, a 45mm throttlebody (original 35)
standard 295cc injectors because i burnt my 450cc  :( hybrid turbo, FMC
and a paddle clutch lightned flywheel and custom made allumium poulies.

TIP: Use computer mouse cable for Hall or other sensor cables
it has 5 wires and aluminium shielding and copper shielding.
Connect the sheelding only to the controller side Mass,
leave the other side unconnected and use maskingtape to prevent shorts.
For glueing your Hall sensor to allumium engine parts use UHU-300 superfest hobby glue  :D

Tooths and degrees,
In my search understanding this i share my findings with you, i dont know exactly if its right but should get the engine started  ;D
i dentify where about the TDC is reletive to the missing tooth.
measure the degrees of your Hall sensor's position to the pistons first cilinder TDC.
measure the degrees of the missing tooth to cilinders TDC.
If the sensor is fitted 55deg before TDC and TDC is situated 60deg after the missing on the thooth wheel the missing has 55deg to travel to TDC but the piston 55+60 = 115deg.
So when the missing is detected the piston is at 115 BTDC.
Now the trigger tooth is the tooth setup in the software after the missing tooth, this can be the first tooth called '0' or the 12 thooth called '11'.

At the trigger tooth injectors inject always, but ignition can be set in the tooth reference table to spark after the trigger tooth + degrees set in 'TDC after Trigger' in primary trigger settings. in the injector table you can select wich injector to start injecting at the trigger tooth the next comes after next trigger tooth.
So if you want to inject earlier you can select a previous cilinder or swap your ignition table, or both.

Problems encounterd::
Safe Mode not disabling
I think i solved this with setting the iButton feature in base settings -> ECU calibrations
Setting the High bit to 190 and the Low bit to 239 should enable the ECU. (Fixed)
Building my Loom i totally forgot about fuel relay wire, so no fuelpump running   ;)    (Fixed)
WBO2 way off followed these steps WBO2 hardware test(Fixed)
Fried coil: IGBT switching transistor burnt because of short left IGBT in ON state.       (Fixed)
Fried Injectors:
Testing them manual, not a good idea.       (Fixed)
Fried P259:
Shorted while testing voltages on the board(Fixed)
No Cam trigger:
Wanted to use the original VR cam trigger, ordered an extra LM815 but to much problems i changed the whole setup to Cam HAll rewired through original Loom and glued magnet and sensor in dizzy(Fixed)
No fuel injected:
Didnt read the manual and wiki good enough and left a Overrun fuelcut feature on.     
"Overrun Fuel Cut Pressure based=> 140 kpa" (F1) Fuel is cut BELOW this setting.
"Overrun Fuel Cut Pressure based" => 0... Yes fuel injected. ;D       (Fixed)
Stupidety,
i presumed my standard injectors where 395cc, searching google revieled they are 295cc/min  :-[   (Fixed)
Communication, Vems crashing and reconnecting evry 5sec.
Probeply my Laptop has not enough memory to handle all processes when Vems is loaded.(Verified = ok)
It turned out my old boorloader didnt correspond well with the new firmware.
Uploaded a new bootloader with fw.1.1.87, but this firmware isnt available yet for Vemstune so connection still wasnt happy. Uploaded the new boorloader again with 1.1.87 fw and new settings for the fuses because the board stayed in boorloader mode evrytime at powerup. Did didnt help after the new upload the board stil started in bootloader mode even with fuses set. Uploaded 1.1.84 with Vemstune and now the marker is set by VT and evrything works pretty stable and the board startsup in stead of starting in bootmode.(Fixed)
Crazy Fuel settings???::
Sparks on a dizzy means right plugs are fired, fuel is injected but to get a puf from the engine it feels like i need to set crazy settings for my engine. Cranck VE=> 250%, 400-500% cranck enrichment, inj. pulse 7,5ms ((993/3/285)x6,49 and 900uS Rampup) PW 58us @ crancking  :o  ???
New injectors 460cc high ohm (12,6) cleaned and balanced and the new firmware with modest settings for cold/warm enrichment and 450uS for rampup and bat correction will do the trick. I know soon for a new starting attempt ...  ;D
Update 10-01-11:: New bootloader and firmware 1.1.84 didnt start the car, last weekend i took the loom outof the car and rewire the V+ feed to injectors, coil and WBO2 and boost bleed valve. Also rewired the dashlights for a clean look by wiring them through the incar connector instead with loose wires under the dashboard.
This morning tried to start the engine but didnt have succes, it looks like the cilinders wont get the required fuel they supposed to get. The only thing i can think of to check is the flyback wire and FET's. I checked the Injector connectors voltage and switched a 0,5w light bulp fitted to the connectors with the FET's wich works well. 




Update: 03-09-2011
Drove the car home in april because i needed to leave the garage i had,
after this couple of major problems fixed.
* severe oil leaking. Wrong sump gasket, replaced with new wright one (Fixed)
* Injector cyl.1 not closing fast enough leaving carbon build up on plug.
                  Solder joint connecting FET+ with V+ and first flyback diode was cracked(Fixed)
To source down the oil leakage i replaced the cranckseal aswell.
To source down the broken solder joint replaced connectors at coil, coil wire, cam position sensor cleaned and checked position as well the cranck sensor.
Upgraded firmeware from 1.1.85 to 1.1.95 for better acceleration enrichment but this wasnt a succes.
Because of a software change to reset SD-card, my ECU reseted while driving the car really enoying even got me stuck once on the middle of the highway so downgraded to 1.1.85 again and all works fine.

Jobs to do:
Fine tuning the fuel map,
Its hard to find the correct settings driving under very light load like through town with 30km/h in second.
Getting the knock sensor to work and act is difficult.
The sensor works in the Log file, but getting noise scale, threshold and gain set at the right values needs diving in deep into the subject.

To get more resolution at the fuel table i divided the req.fuel by 2 and doubled the fuel table values.
also added a extra column between 1200 and 1500 rpm trying to get low loads better to work.
Also have some rare (once, twice in a 15-30min drive) trigger error when cruising steady or with release of the throttle pedal.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2011, 03:23:58 pm by andreNL »

Offline mattias

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Re: Daihatsu Charade GTTi Vems install.
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2010, 10:22:36 pm »
For reference here is your Wiki page :  http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FDaihard

Thread on your firmware upload issue : http://www.vemssupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,1522.0.html

Have you solved the issues you've had with your laptop not communicating properly with the ECU?
I would advice you to run a memory test on such old hardware.. www.memtest86.com is good.

Please upload a vemslog and triggerlog from cranking the engine, which is now possible since you're running 1.1.78++ firmware.
You have a great possibility to do so in the file area here :
http://www.vems.hu/filethingie.php
(how to use it  : http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=FileArea)

Your files fit best  here :
http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Daihard/

Offline andreNL

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Re: Daihatsu Charade GTTi Vems install.
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2010, 05:48:46 am »
Ahh you found my Wiki page  :D, i will update it this weekend
saw some links do not work properly anymore will fix that to.

I agree with you about the memory issue,
i look for bigger memory and see if it helps or else a faster laptop.
i dont think the communication is the problem,
but my laptop cant handle the amount of realtime processes going on when Vemstune is loaded.

Offline mattias

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Re: Daihatsu Charade GTTi Vems install.
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2010, 12:57:39 pm »
Try to find a laptop without ATI graphics, then it should be ok even if it's 6-7 years old.

The kPa based fuelcut has two different functions, what you wrote  is just wrong.
- the overrun fuelcut (while engine breaking)
- overboost fuelcut (to prevent engine damage in case the wastegate malfunctions)

The overrun can be set to 0 if you use the rpm based cut instead, if you use it - then it's usually at just below engine idle vacuum.
Overboost should be obvious.

Offline andreNL

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Re: Daihatsu Charade GTTi Vems install.
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2010, 02:42:58 pm »
Your right didnt understand what overrun means.
i had it at 140kpa,
http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/Daihard/gtti%20prim%20sec%20trig%20pic.png

Offline mattias

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Re: Daihatsu Charade GTTi Vems install.
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2010, 10:09:33 am »
Which VemsTune version did you use to create the log files?
I can't read any of them.. tried with VemsTune from 2010-11-15  and the more experimental from 2010-12-02.
Maybe something just went wrong with your upload? Try putting all those files in a compressed zip file and upload that instead.

Clarification is needed about your trigger setup.
It is not important where on the engine you have mounted the primary trigger sensor, it is only important where it is in relation to the missing tooth on your 24-1 trigger wheel. If you set the missing tooth in front of the sensor, how many degrees does the engine need to rotate before it is in  TDC for cyl 1 ?
At least your triggerlog looks ok in the picture, but I'm not sure you understand where this all occurs in relation to TDC for cyl 1.

I hope your methods of using glue for the sensors and what not is a good idea, vibration and heat may not be compatible. It's ok for just testing and starting up, but maybe not for daily use.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 11:50:01 am by mattias »

Offline andreNL

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Re: Daihatsu Charade GTTi Vems install.
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2010, 02:02:49 pm »
i uploaded the *.zip files
and changed the drawing, you where wright i forgot to include the 'before tdc degrees'

i use both versions 2010-11-15 and 2010-12-02 comm model, the first for changing table the second
for looking while testing.

TDC is 115 degrees after the missing.

Time will tell i want to make a bracket for the dizzy, but they glue airplanes together so i'm confident  ;D
« Last Edit: December 17, 2010, 03:02:25 pm by andreNL »

Offline mattias

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Re: Daihatsu Charade GTTi Vems install.
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2010, 04:19:01 pm »
Can you open and view the logs yourself?
Because I can't.

Offline andreNL

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Re: Daihatsu Charade GTTi Vems install.
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2010, 06:13:01 pm »
Uploaded 3 files should all be working when loaded in vemstune, i used 2010-12-02
cheers andre

Offline mattias

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Re: Daihatsu Charade GTTi Vems install.
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2010, 06:29:30 pm »
Well, the files don't work here. I even tried the new 2010-12-17 release that came today. I will notify the developers so that they can check the files and see what's the issue. If the files are damaged then VemsTune should give a proper error description.

Offline andreNL

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Re: Daihatsu Charade GTTi Vems install.
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2010, 09:36:11 pm »
I downloaded them to a seperated folder, unzipped, then started vemstune and used open log file , trigger file worked but not enough data . The config can be opened in the browser.as a txt file.

EDIT:: uploaded config in zip form today.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2010, 12:56:47 pm by andreNL »

Offline mattias

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Re: Daihatsu Charade GTTi Vems install.
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2010, 01:20:18 pm »
Wait a minute.

Your ECU doesn't have a proper serial number, this is evident  in the config and log files if viewed as text. The board is from 2004 just before all were shipped with one, probably one of the first hundred shipped.  Firmware 1.1.x above 1.1.50 or something will not co-operate, to prevent copy-cat hardware (has been done or this wouldn't exist), both ignition and IAC will be locked.

It's been six years.. you should send it back to Budapest, pay to have it looked over and fixed.

You should also enter a proper ECU name in the dialog which appears when you first connect with the ECU. Makes life easier.

Offline andreNL

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Re: Daihatsu Charade GTTi Vems install.
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2010, 03:32:54 pm »
But i have sparks, and dont use a IAC... just a idle air screw.
Have to figer a way to fit a solenoid to the throttlebody to keep it open a little.
The engine when cranking i needed to add 800% off fuel in cranking and afterstart enrichment
to get some life but it just doesnt want to pickup revs, it seems like it keeps hanging in afterstart.
Maybe i have to lower the Lambda table to get more fuel injected with the transistion from afterstart enrichment to the table's.

PS i hope your wrong about my board isnt working, gives alot of hassle to get a new board.
thx cheers andre
 
« Last Edit: December 19, 2010, 03:42:21 pm by andreNL »

Offline mattias

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Re: Daihatsu Charade GTTi Vems install.
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2010, 03:34:10 pm »
Yes, but spark is locked to 10 degrees and ignores the ignition map completely.

I'm pretty sure the missing serial number is confusing VemsTune as well, I will make the developers aware of it. In your files the serial number appears as strange text.


Please run www.memtest86.com boot CD on your laptop, to make sure that your memory is in good working order - no errors are acceptable.
With 256 MB memory you should have enough to run VemsTune, CPU and graphics card in case of bad drivers without hardware acceleration are the main performance limiters.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2010, 03:36:52 pm by mattias »

Offline andreNL

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Re: Daihatsu Charade GTTi Vems install.
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2010, 03:44:22 pm »
OK i do the memtest first, it makes sense if the ignition is locked it wont start  :'(

Memtest ok Pass no errors,
PIII 797,6mhz
L1 16k
L2 256k
mem 255mb chipset intel i815

I tried to started the car today changing ignition for and back playing with fuel requirements
just couple of pufs so now and then but no more.

Edit: Checked Bios and drivers,
« Last Edit: December 19, 2010, 06:07:53 pm by andreNL »