fried coil

[andreNL]

Hi, after the cam sensor evrything was working
sparks injector rpm evrything worked.
Engine spluterd ones tuning for first start.
Then nothing, checked sparks nothing 
Noticed the coil was really hot probeply fried
How is that posible?
Because when engine is standing stil no sparks
And while starting it can loose the energy.
Some how the cool hete energiezed, i Hope my igbt are Oké

I remember turning the dizzy, maybe i turned it to much
So the cap and rotor didnt contact.

[rob@vems.co.uk]

If the coil is left charging for too long it can burn out - what sort of fuse did you have on the primary coil feed?

[andreNL]

Its fed from the standard relay wich is fused 15amp
I know it should be lower 7 or something i think the igbt is 7amp
I Hope the igbt is Oké other wise i need to change it.
I think its the amount sparks causing the heating up of the coil
In a dizzy setup.
I am Using standard main relay for vems injectors and coil ,
And a fuel relay, fan relay fused seperated.
Cheers andré

[andreNL]

I think i know whats wrong,
i have a three cilinder engine with a 24-1 tooth wheel.
the hall sensor is fitted 55 degrees before tdc, the missing tooth
60 degrees before tdc.

So when de missing thooth is detected the engine still has to turn 60 degrees.
I set my tdc after trigger (the missing tooth trigger) to 115 degrees.
i set trigger theeth after missing thooth to 7 (7x15 = 105 degrees)

this is wrong because reading the forum, i need to set trigger theeth to 2 is 45 degrees (or 3 = 60)
and tdc after trigger parameter to 115 - 45 = 70 degrees.

But why did i got sparks turning engine with sparks out?
that was because trigger tooth was set at 7 is 8x15 = 120 degrees + 115 degrees after the trigger tooth
gives 235 degrees engine rotation thats enough to fire ignition on the dizzy for the next cilinder !!
in stead of firing 1-2-3 it fired 2-3-1 with 1 at tdc.

I am going to set trigger theeth to 2 and tdc after trigger to 70 ( 45 + 70 = 115)
thooth reference table will be 2 - 34 - 18

[GintsK]

Ref tooth table usually contain 0. So
32        0
16  or   32
0         16
will be right ref tooth tables. Second one gives later synchronization, but commonly used to prevent false synchronization possibility.
Ign and inj output tables should be filled accordingly.

If missing pass the sensor so close as 55 deg before TDC (it is bit unclear in your description), trigger tooth will be 0 and trigger angle 55deg.
But it is possible to configure trigger to next cylinder: trigger tooth 7 and trigger angle 55+30=85deg. First kind should be better. 

[andreNL]

Sensor fitted behind the pouly fixed to the engine
55 degrees before tdc
So if the trigger passes the sensor it needs to rotate
55 degrees to get at 0/360 degrees
60 degrees later the piston is at   tdc
So the piston is at 115degrees if the trigger is at sensor

I Hope it clearfies
You say trigger tóoth 0
And degree before tdc 115
Table 16-32-0
Is posible i think

Doesnt the tooth table needs to be the same as the counted  thooth after the trigger tooth?
Ie thooth after trigger thooth = 4
Table 20, 36, 4

[GintsK]

Sensor fitted behind the pouly fixed to the engine
55 degrees before tdc
So if the trigger passes the sensor it needs to rotate
55 degrees to get at 0/360 degrees
60 degrees later the piston is at   tdc
So the piston is at 115degrees if the trigger is at sensor

By trigger you mean missing gap?
It does not matter where sensor is  mounted. Only thing what matters is how much degrees needs to rotate from [missing passes the sensor] to [tdC]. If angle is 55, then my numbers are correct. If there is 115 deg then use trigger tooth 2 and trigger angle 55

next trigger tooth = 16
angular width of tooth = 30
Both above in any case!

If ref table or some of last two mentioned values are incorrect there is chance to fry some coil.

I Hope it clearfies
You say trigger tóoth 0
And degree before tdc 115
Table 16-32-0
Is posible i think

tables work from bottom to top.

Doesnt the tooth table needs to be the same as the counted  thooth after the trigger tooth?
Ie thooth after trigger thooth = 4
Table 20, 36, 4

We configure table with 0 at one position in 100% of configs. 0 is first tooth after missing gap. Then trigger point is configured by tooth count from 0 plus angle.

another important thing to check is when cam sensor signal comes. (cam sensor is a must for 3cyl with 24-1 and dizzy) Config values above will work  in case if cam signal comes in such chronology: cam signal - missing gap - spark for 1st cyl.
In case if it is shifted by 1 rotation (cam signal - missing gap - exhaust stroke for 1st cyl.), config will looks different because then 1st cylinder is not reference any more.

[andreNL]

Cam comes just after 3 ignition 680 degrees + a little

Fitted new coil and checked it, current stay  on
Cant get it of the coil software wise i think the igbt is broken
Changed the channel to a empty one and still 12v on the coil wires.
It looks like the igbt isnt switching off.

[GintsK]

So have you previously non used IGBT out of order?
Are you proof about your config? May be those channels are reused for some other purpose in config?
===
You have just one ign channell used right? Could it be it is just inverted in config?

[andreNL]

  checked inverted ok not inverted
Opened the box saw it right away burned igbt
Somehow the igbt went through the heat transfer paper touching
The box with aluminium back side.
Second time i have this 

[mattias]

What firmware?

[andreNL]

1.1.77

[mattias]

1.1.77 is not offically approved for use. I suggest 1.1.84.  See here :
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=GenBoard%2FUnderDevelopment%2FFirmwareChanges


For upgrading you need latest VemsTune:  "2010-11-26 comm model testing"
http://www.vems.hu/download/VemsTune/NIGHTLY/VemsTune-Install-2010-11-26-commModel-testing.exe

[andreNL]

OK thx,
i upgraded vemstune to 2010-15-11 but its not stable enough crashes to much
i tried upgrading to 1.1.83 but that gave so many strange things i quickly
changed back to 1.1.77 wich looks pretty stable and functional in my setup.
But i do what you sugest upgrading vemstune to 1.1.84 and 26-11-2010.

1.1.84 isnt released either

i miss a function in vemstune to find your timing degrees of the engine.
Something like, turn engine till missing is found (light flashes in software)
push a button and turn engine till missing is found again.
you can exactly pin point tdc and ignition degrees relative to engine TDC in the software.

Now you have to messure it by hand wich is difficult to find the exact degrees in 0,25 resolution 

[mattias]

1.1.84 at least comes with a nice comment about it's quality. They rarely turn out worse than previous versions.

I don't understand why you need a software function to find the missing tooth, don't you have a strobe light?
The triggerlog will develop into kind of what you need later, as it will indicate trigger, ignition, injection and cam events.
Just do a rough assessment of the trigger tooth and TDC after the trigger, then use the ignition lock function and fine tune it.