Author Topic: Engine doesn't run , 1.1.82 fw  (Read 9297 times)

Offline Senchiro

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Engine doesn't run , 1.1.82 fw
« on: November 19, 2010, 10:16:47 am »
I'm from Russia and my English is bad)I have a m20b20 engine with a charger.
All is set up,vems (3.6) installed and configured,but it  doesn't run...It has spark,fuel but...

There are 3 coils:
ign4-1coil on 1 and 6 cyl
ign7-2coil on 2 and 5 cyl
ign5-3coil on 3 and 4 cyl

Injectors: 1 cyl -injF,
2-injH,
3-injB,
4-injG,
5-injA,
6-injC.

 All seems right, but not to my engine.

Help If you do not complicate ... http://vemsecu.ru/attachment.php?item=721
« Last Edit: November 20, 2010, 04:43:56 pm by mattias »

Offline GintsK

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Re: Engine doesn't run , 1.1.82 fw
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2010, 12:19:23 pm »
at first look your coil sequence is wrong

It should be:
4
7
5
4
7
5

Do you use cam sensor? Can you post picture how you build cam reading om M20?




Offline gox

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Re: Engine doesn't run , 1.1.82 fw
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2010, 12:44:16 pm »
Like GintsK said,you sequence is wrong.
Base Setup>Ignition Outputs Visual
Pin 12
Pin 10
Pin 11
Pin 12
Pin 10
Pin 11

Youre reference tooth table is wrong,it should be:
0
20
40
0
20
40


E30 2.7 - VEMS,KKK K27.2,Schrick,1bar

Offline rob@vems.co.uk

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Re: Engine doesn't run , 1.1.82 fw
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2010, 01:11:16 pm »
Theres a working BMW M20 config for the latest firmware in Mattais's signature:
http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/MattiasSandgren/vemscfg/mattias-bmw-m20-2010-07-07.zip


Offline GintsK

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Re: Engine doesn't run , 1.1.82 fw
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2010, 02:01:41 pm »

Tooth table is OK if author uses camsync. This is why I ask about it. It require some custom hardware for that.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2010, 04:44:39 pm by mattias »

Offline gox

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Re: Engine doesn't run , 1.1.82 fw
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2010, 05:47:01 pm »
ahhh sorry,i missed that up
E30 2.7 - VEMS,KKK K27.2,Schrick,1bar

Offline Senchiro

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Re: Engine doesn't run , 1.1.82 fw
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2010, 04:39:12 pm »
Yes there is a cam sensor.Coils is ok, i checked them with strobe,5 deg on start.I moved them on one step down.Only the sequence is important i think) Here is hall sensor  http://vemsecu.ru/attachment.php?item=722

Offline mattias

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Re: Engine doesn't run , 1.1.82 fw
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2010, 05:11:55 pm »
Reference tooth table is ok. Don't touch it.  Top to bottom "0, 100, 80, 60, 40, 20" is what you should have with 60-2 primary trigger + cam sync.   Use the triggerlog function to visually see that it is ok. The secondary trigger "cam sync pulse" must NOT occur at the missing teeth of the primary trigger 60-2 pulses. There can never be a confusion for the ECU if the cam sync occurs before or after, so keep it away from those events.

Ignition output table should contain "4,7,5,4,7,5", or rotated on or two steps. If what you have now makes cyl 1+6 fire at 5 deg before TDC then you should be ok to start the engine.

Ignition timing at 45 kPa row is what you should have at real 100 kPa.
You should start VE tuning with only  20, 40 , 60 , 80 & 100  in the kPa table,  more cells are just a head-ache to use.
Use lambda 0.90 at 80 kPa and up. Maybe 0.88 or slightly lower at 100 kPa.


Here is a bit of a tricky thing..
Under injector settings you have set them to fire individually during cranking, this usually requires a higher "crank VE%" value in the "priming, cranking & afterstart" settings. Try 70-80% instead of the 50% that you have now.

With these small injectors you can try setting the injectors to fire simultaneously with a divider of 1  (on every cylinder event) during cranking, it will make it easier to start and will probably work better with "crank VE%" set to the lower value of 50% that you have in your config right now, although these injectors might require a higher value still.

What is the correct crank VE% you may ask ?
I have noticed that with (usually) large injectors it can require some more tuning to get it starting hot as well as cold when set to fire simultaneously on every event during cranking,   the same settings that work pretty well for small injectors. When you start out, you might find that you can cold start without issues, but hot starting will flood the engine, in that case use WOT and crank it until it fires. That means you need to lower the "crank VE%" value and adapt the cranking enrichment curve to your injectors and how you choose to open the injectors during cranking.

Offline Senchiro

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Re: Engine doesn't run , 1.1.82 fw
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2010, 05:30:43 pm »
 :) so many letters))) Thanks,ill try it tomorrow.

Offline Senchiro

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Re: Engine doesn't run , 1.1.82 fw
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2010, 06:04:34 pm »
Eeee!)It works :)Thanks all.What sequence of injectors should i use with cam sensor? 1-5-3-6-2-4 from bottom or 6-1-5-2-3-4?

Offline mattias

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Re: Engine doesn't run , 1.1.82 fw
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2010, 09:15:26 pm »
Nice to hear it runs! :)

The injector outputs must be put in the same position and order as the ignition. Cyl 1 ignition event = cyl 1 injection event.

That means that the injector timing table describes how many degrees after cyl 1 ignition event that the injection will end. 400-450 degrees  is a good start.