vems in old honda engine

[ricardo_934]

hello
i'm ricardo from portugal, i'm mechanic and electricist.
all in my life i have worked on honda engines non vtec and some vtec, but when talk to ecu tune i only have chipped ecu and tuned with one software that calls crome, with stock sensors and the old style distributor that i need to tune always after change the cam timming when tuning the camshafts.. it sucks.
but now in my new project car i'm interested to work in one new thing, i want distributor less, with crankshaft trigger, (i think that this is the best location for the trigger wheel) and coil's on plugs(i think that is the name in english)

this ecu only need this inputs for work??:
map sensor
tps sensor
intake air temp sensor
water temp sensor
trigger wheel

and off shore the egt and wideband for tune.


the tooths for the wheel trigger is important or i can use one from other car and set in the ecu software?

i have searched but i only have find some questions for de s2000 engine that is much diferent than my engine, if the forum have some information for the hondas obd0 and obd1 please post here.

sorry for my bad english and for all these questions in one post 

thanks

[ricardo_934]

other question.
i can use 8 injectors? i ask this because with individual throttle bodys and stand off injectors i can't have a smooth engine in low rpm's, and in this car i want to try 4 stand off injectors and the other 4 in the original place, before the head, for see the diferences in low rpm's, low tps value.

thanks

[jrussell]

I've done a Honda B18A, but that was with stock triggers. It would be even better with a 60-2 wheel, or even something as simple as two trigger points on the crank. The trigger sensor is configurable in the ECU to any reasonable trigger. For coil on plug, you need to either fire two at once, or run a camsync sensor to know which TDC is compression.

Your essential sensor list looks reasonable (for waste-spark. Add cam sensor for full sequential)

Yes, 4+4 staged injection is available.

[rob@vems.co.uk]

Yep, everything you want to use the VEMS for is possible - the reason that there is no mention of the Honda engines is that everyone uses Chrome, or they'll use Hondata.
Personally I prefer a 36-1 crank sensor to get the car running, with waste spark and sequential ignition, then add a cam trigger for full synchronisation.

[mattias]

with stock sensors and the old style distributor that i need to tune always after change the cam timming when tuning the camshafts.. it sucks.

You will still have to re-tune with VEMS, as with any system that uses Speed-Density - that is intake manifold air pressure and intake air temperature, to calculate fuel demands.

You need a "hot wire" or MAF to avoid a re-tune (at least fuel-wise).

However, it's quite easy to adapt the fuel after making a change so it depends on what you want out of it.

[rob@vems.co.uk]

Honda use speed density as stock, a MAF is certainly not needed - and unless I'm wrong, not properly supported on VEMS

[mattias]

I know, and he was saying he wanted to avoid re-tuning all the time after a change in cam timing and what not  - which means he should turn to a system with a MAF instead if that is very important to him.

Or maybe he just thinks Crome sucks and wants a better system that still uses Speed-Density.

[lugnuts]

I assumed he was talking about having to re-time the trigger set-up after changing cam timing, because the trigger is in the distributor.

Not hard, plus how many times do you need to change your cam timing after it is optimized?

[ricardo_934]

thanks for all the replys.
the b18a have the same sensors than my actual ''test engine'' d16a8

when i say that need to tune, is the ignition timing, because like lugnuts says, the trigger is in the distributor.
when i tune one engine, normally only change the intake cam timing 3 or 4 times times.
first i mount the camshaft with degree wheel with the best position i think for the cam timming, and after a few kilometer for break in, i advance 1 degree and test, see the results, if i don;t like, retard 2 degrees. and analise the best position. not too much times, but i think that the best readings is in the crankshaft, or i'm wrong?

chrome don't sucks, is a good, easy and low cost software for street cars with soft mods. hondata i think that is a little bit ''overpriced''

the 36-1 wheel where i can find? i have one trigger wheel from one fiat punto 55 i think, but don't know how many theets it have.
the hall sensor i have 1 from one smart 600cc, and 2 from land rover defender with ford engine, i think that is all bosch hall sensors. it work properly with this ecu?

what is the best maf for use with vems?


the unique disadvantage of using only crank trigger and waste spark is the short spark plug life?
or the engine can have better efficiency with these too triggers?

thanks again for all replys.