VemsTune and 1.1.6x release

[lugnuts]

<<< how will the engine benefit from more fuel during idle or normal cruising once overheated? For example if you go at 100C CLT and at that point you go to 105% of VE, how much reduction do you get on the CLT? On the other hand, isnt your lamda recalculating the fueling back to 1.00 on idle and cruising anyway? Unless you are doing this for drag and track purposes,in which case i can understand it. But for normal everyday use, i think it makes things more complicated. >>>

- In my opinion, it is meant to recude the cylinder temperature, and the chance for detonation. It won't do anything for reducing the coolant temp at all.

- Having this function in the "Safety" section makes sense in your opinion, so people can simply not use the feature. Less complicated then having to manipulate the warmup map.

<<< On version 1.1.27 which i still use and works fine, you only have 2 cranking temps.So far,for the 440cc @3bar injectors i use, as well as 630cc which other have used on the audis, they had no problems with the cranking. So to go to 4 bin table is a good improvement i guess, but i wouldnt think anything more is needed. >>>

- I disagree in part. 4 points is better than 2 of course. But we had 10 in MT and 8 in VemsTune. I don't like going "backward"

<<< Warmup enrichments do need to stay as they are, as well as the ability to manipulate the coolant bins as you want.I think that feature is very important,and has allowed me to control idle efficiently as well. >>>

- Yes I agree 100% on being able to set your own Coolant Bins.

<<< Personally, i would add a spark advance as well as retard feature,same as found on the motronic, so that when you use meth, or any kind of feature that can reduce the IATs and give better perfomance, the ECU would automatically climb to the higher advance. If you only have a retard and set to 0 the retard on the coolest IATs you get, then you are obligated to make a different map,via a switchable map feature to get any benefit from meth injection because with the addition of meth, you actually have a higher octane fuel + lower IATs(and therefore perhaps more advance can be added). >>>

- Another good idea because the fuel itself used in the Meth can allow for even more advance than the ecu will correct for based on the IAT.
- But then you should just make a dedicated "Meth Injection" Output so the Nitrous guys dont blow upo their motors, haha.

<<< Hi.
Does anyone have a properly configured and well-functioning maps:
MAT/TPS Fuel Enrichement
MAT/TPS Ignition Retarda
RPM/MAP MAP Corr
??
and could share them? >>>

- This is critical. if VEMS is to have commercial success, you need to include "base files" which have all of the outputs "Disabled", this will cut down on many support question.

<<< lugnuts: i'm working in embed boost DC vs gear(like in 1.1.47), but with alterboost for N20,water or what do you want Smiley >>>

- Sounds good, I will send you a PM

[AVP]

there is already a feature to reduce overheat and that is MAT/TPS fuel enrichment. The hotter the engine and IATs the more fuel you can add that way. No need to use the warmup enrichment bins in reverse!!

By the way, when GintsK says he uses that as safety for 'overheating' purposes, what does he mean? I thought he meant engine overheating, thus CLT going high(which would go up if you have high cyl temp anyway).

On high load, if you want to avoid knock, you reduce timing or add fuel. Warm up enrichment bins deal with CLT. not with engine's cyl heat and knock. So as far as i understand it the MAT/TPS table is there to deal with just that. Not the warm up enrichment bins.

[MWfire]

you can add more fuel when clt is exceed 105C with warmup enrichment but allways(idle,wot..)
you can add more fuel when MAT is big, but with tps scalings(on wot more fuel, but in idle not).
you can add more fuel depending on egt
you can reduce boost depending on egt and mat

[AVP]

excactly, which is why i dont understand why the warmup enrich. scale has to be used for that as well....

[gunni]

The MAT enrich should be KPA dependent or at least choosable between TPS and KPA.
same for MAT retard.

Safety from coolant enrichment when it steps out of bounds is fine to do with the wrongly named
Warmup enrichment table, should simply be called Coolant temp enrichment table.

VEMS should not use table positions as any references to other functions, so the second last cell in that table has some effect on
idle control or whatever, they should all be referenced against the numbers and never ever table positions.

[GintsK]

-> A80Avant Overheated engines often have knocking danger. My ego limit is 10%, but WUE @130degC is +30%. and so it works.
BTW it is possible to overheat engine in cold winter when radiator is blocked by snow. Here MAT did not help.

[GintsK]

What do you use for datalogging?

I still use Megatune from dnb. Thanks alot for this!

[GintsK]

you can add more fuel when clt is exceed 105C with warmup enrichment but allways(idle,wot..)
you can add more fuel when MAT is big, but with tps scalings(on wot more fuel, but in idle not).
you can add more fuel depending on egt
you can reduce boost depending on egt and mat

Yes! All of these things currently works perfectly!

[AVP]

yes i understand that engine overheat will cause knock Gints, but are you saying that the rest of the options to avoid knock are not adequate?

@130C CLT, your coolant boils as well, so the engine should not work at all at those temps in the first place.

can you explain what you mean with the ego correction and the WUE as well? How does ego correction of lamda, is affected by WUE ??

My engine with a 80C thermostat and a good working cooling system only reaches 95-97C tops in a hot weather in Athens,Greece,in traffic on a 40C day. But i do aggree, as you say there may be times where different enviroments may call for drastic measures

[GintsK]

coolant may be even not boils in closed system. But this is not about cooling but about saving engine  when something with cooling goes wrong.
Rest of options are adequate and works. But this is additional protection which can or can not overlays with others. Coolant leak is case where not overlays.

If Ego correction is switched off WUE graph have direct influence on fuel dose. When Ego is on situation is bit more complicated. Therefore aggressive WUE ramp-up is needed to overcome ego correction.

[AVP]

ok i see what you mean with the ego correction.

anyway, more safety features is always better.I only hope there is a stable official version that will cure most bugs really.But i think it may end up in the 1.1.7x !!

keep up the good work guys in the development! we are counting on you!

[Tony C]

right have got it to upload 1.1.44 in MT again,
looks like im going to have to wait to go over to 1.1.64 for now :-(

Do a datalog of a cold start and post the log, it contains the config so that's all we need.
I have used 1.1.64 successfully and started at 0 C down to  -25 C, with some difficult as I underestimated how much fuel it actually needs.

did anyone manage to have a look at this?

[Sprocket]

Tony, its not going to work without propper cranking enrichment values which you currently do not have. That is the difficult time consuming bit, trying to find those values.  From this thread, it would appear that the cranking enrichments in 1.1.6x are a whole world appart from older firmwares.

Im sure Dave will be able to extrapolate from the values he uses in relation to the size of injector. The engines are similar enough to require similar amounts of fuel for cranking, its just working out the actual pulse width for the injectors you have, to give the same amount of fuel at cranking, then you can fine tune it from there.

[Sprocket]

Sprocket:  With the old system using only a cold/hot pulsewidth - changing from alternating to all banks would result in as much more fuel as the number of cylinders you had. So if you had 4 injectors and 4 ms warm start pw, you would get 4 ms x 4 cyl = 16 ms on each 4-stroke cycle. All injectors went from firing once each cycle to firing at every ignition/injection event, the pulsewidth stayed the same.

With the new "enrichment" strategy the pulsewidth is calculated and you're given the option of dividing it over the 4-stroke cycle, so you only get the fuel more often but the total amount is always the same. That makes it possible to use the same cranking tables regardless of your injector strategy for cranking.

My engine starts just barely better when I don't use alternating, simply because fuel is injected more often so the chance is higher that the engine gets some on each intake stroke.   Yes, I would've liked to see true sequential fuel injection implemented soon as well to see what difference that can make for both cranking, idle and low load quality and power.

Im going to throw a spanner in the works,

If by setting the Injector Firing Divider to '1', Alternate Banks to '3..0', then Cranking Fire Banks While Cranking to 'All Banks' and then Cyl for Sequential, #Cyl/2 forSsemiSeq Cranking Fuel Divider to '1', will not add four times as much fuel at cranking???...

[mattias]

I tried 1.1.63 to but is seems like a gyand leep to mankind!

The firts thing I noticed that I lost 14 x 16 with spark and lambda map.
..
So. What's the best software to confert to from 1.0.73 14 x 16.

I rarely see the need for 14x16, only on highly tuned engines with hot cams and 2 valve/cyls.
With interpolation and more tuning experience you'll see how it's more important where you put the bins and not how many they are.

I can't argue with you on table resolution being bad in itself, especially if the tuning software has methods to auto-tune or manually work with the larger tables. My opinion is still that it's mainly a marketing feature, to sell more ECUs and won't make your car run faster. "Look at my shiny rims! They're twice as shiny as that other brand!! They suck! HAHAHA"

How anal should you be in following the AFR/lambda target? Perfection is not really a personal goal of mine when I tune an engine, I shoot for a decent compromise. We can always discuss perfection, but know that it is utopia.

Example : Lets say you find a torque fluctuation just around the tuning frequency of the intake runners while the cam is coming on strong. Sweeping past and load holding in a dyno in this area reveal that you need 10 points in a 1500 rpm span to get a +/- 0.01 variation in lambda at most. This is great in a tricky area of the map and you can pat your self on the back once you've nailed the fuel table - and now do the same for task for ignition advance... Never mind the difference in tuning an engine that has flow metering electronics compared to the VE based approach.
In a real-life scenario where you drive the car - will it matter?
It's like injector fuel trim, very few have the opportunity to ever do any useful adjustment since they lack the sophisticated equipment and measuring tools - but as long as there is a margin of safety in the overall tuning and the plugs look fresh you can probably sleep well at night knowing that cyl #6 won't run too lean.

Convert to 1.1.64 or later versions, it will work out fine for you. The added control and features of the more recent firmware will make the engine run even more consistently good.

On a similar note..  On my wishlist is to have clearly written if it's TPS or kPA on the Y-axis on all tables.

<<< Hi.
Does anyone have a properly configured and well-functioning maps:
MAT/TPS Fuel Enrichement
MAT/TPS Ignition Retarda
RPM/MAP MAP Corr
??
and could share them? >>>

- This is critical. if VEMS is to have commercial success, you need to include "base files" which have all of the outputs "Disabled", this will cut down on many support question.

The "good defaults" are in the default firmware configurations that are delivered in the VemsTune install package. When you do an upgrade from an earlier firmware and the new tables and settings are missing in the old one, the default ones are used from the default configuration file of the firmware you're upgrading to.

At the moment they are pretty good but can get better, and some configlets to help individual settings/tables like cranking/afterstart/warmup for gasoline and ethanol will be added, but it takes an effort from people to test and make sure they are valid, which is what I'm working on now.

After the cranking table is scaled up (maybe also afterstart enrichment) I will come up with good defaults which should make it easy to start any engine as long as you set the req fuel value according to the correct formula, and then you only need to tweak the "cranking VE" and your VE table to make things work very well for your engine.

If by setting the Injector Firing Divider to '1', Alternate Banks to '3..0', then Cranking Fire Banks While Cranking to 'All Banks' and then Cyl for Sequential, #Cyl/2 forSsemiSeq Cranking Fuel Divider to '1', will not add four times as much fuel at cranking???...

Like I said, the pulsewidth that is calculated from all the enrichments is divided over the 4-stroke cycle so the total pulsewidth is the same. To add fuel you need to alter the enrichement tables. The only thing you're doing with the cranking fuel divider is to decide how much to split the total pulsewidth over the 4-stroke cycle.